Greatest Metal According to Gowi/LedZep/Repo/Rocky and I! - Music Diaries

kokkinos

Ok, two final things - yes, those are really the last ones, I promise - about the 1980's before moving on.
First of all, I was taking a second look at my final standings and I knew there was something fishy about it, how horrible am I at maths, I forgot to add one album to The Smiths' sum, so they should have 54.5 instead of 45.5. On the other hand, it was a great mistake in the sense that it emphatically showcased their superiority - The Smiths with 5 albums > anyone else with 6, lol.
Secondly,

Mercury wrote:

Also, do you really dislike Disintegration?

Oh yeah, don't get me started. To keep it short, I consider it equally bad as The Head On The Door and pretty much for the same reasons. Of course the fact that everyone else adores it, while The Head On The Door is eternally condemned to obscurity - for their standards at least - only rubs salt into the wound. But no hard feelings against the band that released Pornography, whatever words I say, I will always love them - couldn't waste such a chance.

Enough is enough, I'll try to leave the 80's behind me and move on.
So, the 90's. Tons of valuable insights already, I’m kinda late to the party, but it's great this project receives the attention it deserves, the more the merrier.
Since the frame of the plan has by now been more or less set in stone, I'll just throw a couple of random thoughts around without going in too much depth.
I guess the first question that needs to be answered is if there should be a unifying theme or not. I can see you’ve made a call in favor of the latter and that’s where I’d lean as well. The concept wouldn’t work as well as with the 80’s, the format would be too restrictive. Just think about it. Going with the two biggest movements, that would mean grunge without Nirvana and Britpop without Pulp, if you were trying to implement it into other scenes it would lead to Shoegaze without My Bloody Valentine, pop/rock without Weezer, I don’t see it working. The metal-related stuff I have no idea to be honest - and why would I? Of course the dream -for me at least - would be hip hop, but not much luck there either unfortunately, many of the greats have had 1 or 2 albums throughout the entire decade. Now, if you are into some real rule-bending shenanigans, you could put a twist and sort the albums based on the producer, so if you were to start with late 80's it would be something like Marley Marl, DJ Premier, Dr.Dre, Pete Rock, Q-Tip, DJ Quik, RZA, etc., but I know that's the kind of project few if any would enjoy except me.
When it comes to the candidates and without any specific genre in mind, the ones I could think of that have the discography to back it up and haven't been brought up already - unless I somehow missed them, which is a possibility, sooo many posts, the thread is on fire - would be Built To Spill, who I think have only 4 albums and a fifth one in 2001, maybe you could fill the gap with an EP, Modest Mouse, where you would obviously miss some of the heavy hitters that came out in 2000's , and Fishmans, who seem like a perfect match.
Regarding the 10 artists that eventually made the cut, well, it's gonna be quite the spectacle. You can imagine that all of those are ridiculously far from my comfort zone, not to mention there's too many of them, it will be hard to keep it under control, so I'll try my best to hang in there, but I expect it to be extremely challenging, hopefully an ear-opening experience is round the corner either through the albums themselves or your take on them. Looking forward to it anyhow!

Mercury
Turn your back on the pay-you-back last call

Gender: Male
Location: St. Louis

First off, before I give you a massive response post, THANKS yet again for all the feedback my friends! You are making this diary insanely WILDLY fun!

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kokkinos wrote:

Ok, two final things - yes, those are really the last ones, I promise - about the 1980's before moving on.
First of all, I was taking a second look at my final standings and I knew there was something fishy about it, how horrible am I at maths, I forgot to add one album to The Smiths' sum, so they should have 54.5 instead of 45.5. On the other hand, it was a great mistake in the sense that it emphatically showcased their superiority - The Smiths with 5 albums > anyone else with 6, lol.

Ha! That does indicate the sheer dominance and greatness of the Smiths in your life. If I had some similar game with songwriters it would be similar with Dylan for me. Take the first 10 albums of Dylan and he would get more points than any other singer/sonwriter with 12 or 13 albums lol. I just love him so much. But yeah, The Smiths are a band i came around on...big time. I am listening to Hatful of Hollow in my car constantly the last 2 weeks. What a great band.

kokkinos wrote:

Secondly,
Oh yeah, don't get me started. To keep it short, I consider it equally bad as The Head On The Door and pretty much for the same reasons. Of course the fact that everyone else adores it, while The Head On The Door is eternally condemned to obscurity - for their standards at least - only rubs salt into the wound. But no hard feelings against the band that released Pornography, whatever words I say, I will always love them - couldn't waste such a chance.

haha okay okay. I love disintegration and it annoys me that I didn't somehow play loosy goosy with the rules and include Disintegration in last game. Probably woulda been an 8.5-9.5 and woulda lead to them being ahead of REM and maybe even The Smiths. But alas it wasn't meant to be.

theblueboy wrote:

Damn keep thinking about this concept lol

Wish I'd thought of Teenage Fanclub earlier. Fit the criteria perfectly 6 albums from 1990-1997. Some really good and seminal ones too. Some people find them boring though-its very much about appreciating the song craft with these guys. Don't think they would have made the cut ultimately, but was just worth a mention.

Also, Yo La Tengo was mentioned before. Yeah, there are those troublesome three 80s albums but they are kind of obscure (similar to early Beck) and almost never discussed by anyone! The good stuff starts with Fakebook (1990)-and yeah it's a great 6 album run to 2000. Again though, I'd stick to your guns as you have a really solid list. I just felt compelled to mention those two bands in passing as a fan of both of them.

Teenage Fanclub is a cool group that I am quite unfamiliar with. Probably wouldn't have made the final cut. But woulda been considered. They have a new album and before I listen to it wanted to listen to a couple of their classics. Still may do that. And yeah YLT was disappointing cuz they had those two quite early almost forgotten albums and I wanted to delve into them (woulda at least been on the final 20 possibles if not on final 10) But I already was kinda shittiong all over my rules with the inclusion of Death and Neurosis with 1987 debuts. I'll find a way to delve into their incredible discog. All 3 of their albums that I have heard have a masterful and memorable sound that is all their own which is impressive. But I haven't heard any of their classics or non classics in years and those I only listened to maybe 1 or 2 times. so yeah they are great for this project in the future.

theblueboy wrote:

Wow. Intense list Very Happy

Seems like you have avoided 90s nostalgia altogether in favour of some bold, uncompromising underground artists. Looks like they do all fit well together on that basis.

I'm definitely down for some Harvey, Stereolab and Aphex. I'll keep a weather eye on the rest (though some likely too heavy/ intense pour moi). Intriguing stuff all the way though.

Yeah it is intense, ain't it!? lol. Last night I was having second thoughts about this set because it is way way less famouis on avg than the U2/REM/Cure/Sonic Youth/Smiths/Cocteau group earlier. So I went to BEA's top albums of the 1990s. I wanted to see of those 48 artists I was considering where the top ranked albums of the 90s had these bands/artists. This was due to the fact that the 6 1980s bands all had top 10 to 20 albums on our 1980s chart, so I wanted to see if any of these artists had similar fame here. Lol nope. PJ Harvey had album 92 of the 90s as her best placement, looked and found no Morbid angel or jesus lizard or autechre or unwound and i looked up to 110 of the 90s. There was one Death, 1 Fugazi and they were quite late. IF i were to pick somewhat analogous artists artists for the 90s (that I am not already very very familiar with) It would be

Pearl Jam
The Smashing Pumpkins
Bjork
Rage Against the Machine
A Tribe Called Quest
Green Day
Blur
Alice In Chains
Beck
Aphex Twin...

In other words only one of the artists I picked had a top 50 album of the 1990s on this site lolol. Anyway, I am pretty content with these 10 bands/artists as of now.

LedZep wrote:

10 bands is a lot but I'll do my best to try to keep up with all of them. Hyped!

I'm glad you're game! And yeah its a bit much. It got out of hand. I mainly didn't want to leave Morbid Angel alone with no Death metal friends lol, nor Fugazi with no noisy post hardcore, nor Aphex Twin with no other undergroiund elctronic artists to play with. lol. The list would have been a lot more manageable without Death, Unwound, Jesus Lizard and Autechre. But I don't know I wanted to have some comparable bands against each other and not just 6 COMPLETELY disparate sounds in every way with no basis for comparison.

dihansse wrote:

Great! I’ll try to fit in some of these albums in my own diary coz I just arrived in the nineties.

I saw you already started! Thanks for playing into this game, my friend!

Repo wrote:

Love all the metal!!! Twisted Evil

Great list, Merc! Super psyched you went with Stereolab and Unwound. Love all the bands actually. Cool

My rankings as of today...

1. Fugazi
2. Stereolab
3. Aphex Twin
4. Death
5. PJ Harvey
6. Jesus Lizard
7. Unwound
8. Neurosis
9. Autechre
10. Morbid Angel

FUCK YEAH! I have the Metal fever recently. and Death and Morbid Angel are such a sexy match of deep dives into their stuff. And Neurosis is legendary as they get and I am looking forward to trying to decipher their works. Their first album is a crust punk/hardcore punk brutality, and its already fascinating hearing them circa 1987 and before Neurosis as we know them emerged in 1992 or so. I'm glad you love the artists chosen.

kokkinos wrote:

Enough is enough, I'll try to leave the 80's behind me and move on.
So, the 90's. Tons of valuable insights already, I’m kinda late to the party, but it's great this project receives the attention it deserves, the more the merrier.
Since the frame of the plan has by now been more or less set in stone, I'll just throw a couple of random thoughts around without going in too much depth.
I guess the first question that needs to be answered is if there should be a unifying theme or not. I can see you’ve made a call in favor of the latter and that’s where I’d lean as well. The concept wouldn’t work as well as with the 80’s, the format would be too restrictive. Just think about it. Going with the two biggest movements, that would mean grunge without Nirvana and Britpop without Pulp, if you were trying to implement it into other scenes it would lead to Shoegaze without My Bloody Valentine, pop/rock without Weezer, I don’t see it working. The metal-related stuff I have no idea to be honest - and why would I? Of course the dream -for me at least - would be hip hop, but not much luck there either unfortunately, many of the greats have had 1 or 2 albums throughout the entire decade. Now, if you are into some real rule-bending shenanigans, you could put a twist and sort the albums based on the producer, so if you were to start with late 80's it would be something like Marley Marl, DJ Premier, Dr.Dre, Pete Rock, Q-Tip, DJ Quik, RZA, etc., but I know that's the kind of project few if any would enjoy except me.
When it comes to the candidates and without any specific genre in mind, the ones I could think of that have the discography to back it up and haven't been brought up already - unless I somehow missed them, which is a possibility, sooo many posts, the thread is on fire - would be Built To Spill, who I think have only 4 albums and a fifth one in 2001, maybe you could fill the gap with an EP, Modest Mouse, where you would obviously miss some of the heavy hitters that came out in 2000's , and Fishmans, who seem like a perfect match.

yes the lack of hip hop irked me. But yeah I couldn't find a group with 6 albums in the decade that I had interest in. I also think I generally have less to say abouty Hip Hop than rock and metal for some reason. I get writers block instantly when writing about hip hop - i feel instantly stupid and unable to form thoughts with almost all hip hop albums even ones I lovelovelove all time favorites like Liquid Swords or Life of Pablo.

Your producer idea is actually genius though. Maybe will do something like that in the future or for the 2000s or 2010s. we shall see.

as for Modest Mouse, I don't like them recently. also not enough albums. I will come back to liking them at some point.

Built to Spill is a band I know and love from the 90s so woulda been boring because I woulda given em just 9s all across the boards and I wouldn't have the same mystery that I will have for all the 10 I picked.

As for FISHMANS, that's suuuuch a great idea that... I may just add them and have them replace someone when the second or third albums come around. They are so revered and I have yet to fully grasp what makes them so orgasmically adored by so many people. Seriously, their average grade on RYM is King Crimson or Beatles level, they get 4-4.38 avg grades which is basically unprecedented in the last 30 years on RYM. They have substantially less votes and that is why they are pushed down on the RYM algorithm otherwise they would have 2-4 albums in the top 100. Anyway, enough about algorithms or crowd-sourced rating systems. The point is they are a VERY intriguing band for this project and you may have just presented something that will change this project. Will look now at what their 1988-2001 out put was... okay, they have 11 albums (if I include which i should their famous liove albums. If I only include their legendary 1 live album then they have 8-9 albums from 1991 to 2000 and that amaount much like the Melvins can cause some issues mathematically. Their first 3 albums apparently are less highly regarded and then they found a special something in the mid 90s and the rest is history. This is still something I may make work. Thanks for the suggestion!

kokkinos wrote:

Regarding the 10 artists that eventually made the cut, well, it's gonna be quite the spectacle. You can imagine that all of those are ridiculously far from my comfort zone, not to mention there's too many of them, it will be hard to keep it under control, so I'll try my best to hang in there, but I expect it to be extremely challenging, hopefully an ear-opening experience is round the corner either through the albums themselves or your take on them. Looking forward to it anyhow!

and yeah this is a much bigger and much more grating set of bands for sure. Even if you don't indulge in Death, Morbid Angel, Jesus Lizard and Neurosis and just follow along on Aphex Twin, Autechre, Stereolab, PJ Harvey, Unwound and Fugazi that would be fun and okay. Hell some of those less extreme bands in that back 6 are still pretty underground and intense. So maybe, just listen with me to PJ and Stereolab and Aphex Twin? lol. it gets shorter by the second!
_________________
-Ryan

ONLY 4% of people can understand this chart! Come try!

My Fave Metal - you won't believe #5!!!

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

I was indeed thinking more like a similar grouping like you posted above of:
Pearl Jam
The Smashing Pumpkins
Bjork
Rage Against the Machine
A Tribe Called Quest
Green Day
Blur
Alice In Chains
Beck
Aphex Twin...

BUT........................................................

This is your jam. You do you Smile

. Especially since you mentioned a decent chunk of that boring you.

I liked the logic of how you got there too.

Anyway, would be happy either way.

Last edited by RoundTheBend on 05/07/2021 03:06; edited 1 time in total

Mercury
Turn your back on the pay-you-back last call

Gender: Male
Location: St. Louis

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Bright Green Field by Squid

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Seek Shelter by Iceage

Who else is stoked about these 2 albums dropping tonight???! I know I sure as hell Fucking am.
_________________
-Ryan

ONLY 4% of people can understand this chart! Come try!

My Fave Metal - you won't believe #5!!!

Mercury
Turn your back on the pay-you-back last call

Gender: Male
Location: St. Louis

RoundTheBend wrote:

I was indeed thinking more like a similar grouping like you posted above of:
Pearl Jam
The Smashing Pumpkins
Bjork
Rage Against the Machine
A Tribe Called Quest
Green Day
Blur
Alice In Chains
Beck
Aphex Twin...

BUT........................................................

This is your jam. You do you Smile

. Especially since you mentioned a decent chunk of that boring you.

I liked the logic of how you got there too.

Anyway, would be happy either way.

Yeah the problem with that list is as someone born in 1989 and who grew up with 80% of those bands constantly being played by my older siblings or on the radio, there is MUCH less new and exciting discovery in that lot for me. I didn’t really have SY or that much REM even playing constantly on my alt rock stations as a kid. And those 6 bands were mostly these legendary bands I would hear about or see on tv as older relics of a bygone era. That is another reason that doesn’t appeal as much to me.
_________________
-Ryan

ONLY 4% of people can understand this chart! Come try!

My Fave Metal - you won't believe #5!!!

dihansse

Gender: Male
Age: 60

Mercury wrote:

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Bright Green Field by Squid

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Seek Shelter by Iceage

Who else is stoked about these 2 albums dropping tonight???! I know I sure as hell Fucking am.

These are certainly also on my list for tonight

dihansse

Gender: Male
Age: 60

Mercury wrote:

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Bright Green Field by Squid

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Seek Shelter by Iceage

Who else is stoked about these 2 albums dropping tonight???! I know I sure as hell Fucking am.

These are certainly also on my list for tonight

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

Mercury wrote:

RoundTheBend wrote:

I was indeed thinking more like a similar grouping like you posted above of:
Pearl Jam
The Smashing Pumpkins
Bjork
Rage Against the Machine
A Tribe Called Quest
Green Day
Blur
Alice In Chains
Beck
Aphex Twin...

BUT........................................................

This is your jam. You do you Smile

. Especially since you mentioned a decent chunk of that boring you.

I liked the logic of how you got there too.

Anyway, would be happy either way.

Yeah the problem with that list is as someone born in 1989 and who grew up with 80% of those bands constantly being played by my older siblings or on the radio, there is MUCH less new and exciting discovery in that lot for me. I didn’t really have SY or that much REM even playing constantly on my alt rock stations as a kid. And those 6 bands were mostly these legendary bands I would hear about or see on tv as older relics of a bygone era. That is another reason that doesn’t appeal as much to me.

Indeed.

My siblings were 80s kids (my oldest brother is considerably older than me), so basically your 80s list is my siblings list, and the above 90s list... we'll I'm your slightly older brother who played those artists to death in my teenage years... hehe. Only real reason I find it more fitting.

Otherwise, your list would likely garner more discussion/participation. I think the two people rooting for that list are just nostalgia and everyone else is like SNOOZEFEST! hehe (which is fine).

theblueboy

RoundTheBend wrote:

I was indeed thinking more like a similar grouping like you posted above of:
Pearl Jam
The Smashing Pumpkins
Bjork
Rage Against the Machine
A Tribe Called Quest
Green Day
Blur
Alice In Chains
Beck
Aphex Twin...

BUT........................................................

This is your jam. You do you Smile

. Especially since you mentioned a decent chunk of that boring you.

I liked the logic of how you got there too.

Anyway, would be happy either way.

The stats button for the decades is quite fun. You might have looked at it? You can see which artists have 4, 5 or 6 albums in the top 100, 250 and 500 for the 90s. The artists with 5 or more in the top 500 is pretty similar to the above list.

Yeah, it would be more accessable to go with those sorts of bands but also it would be less exciting.

Whilst folks might not like all the artists on Mercury's list, they might just LOVE a few of them. That should make this really interesting with some good participation from others.

I listened to some Stereolab and Aphex Twin already and it was cool as shit Cool

theblueboy

RoundTheBend wrote:

RE: Green... I found it on the genius side of that argument K, but that's me. Hence my top 10 album on this site at least. Plus because I really appreciate that irony of tracks like Stand, it makes some of those tracks most would disagree with 100s for me, and then the real beauties of the album are 100s too, so just a really consistent album for me somehow... like REMs most consistent album, track for track

Yes! One of my top 4 R.E.M. favourites...Murmur, Green, Out of Time, Automatic. I think they hit on a really focused sound on Green and yeah at this point they are getting into their imperial phase as "serious songwriters". For me, it's one of just a few REM albums that feels greater than the sum of its parts ( most REM albums have great songs, but I find some are more wishy washy as a whole).