Greatest Metal According to Gowi/LedZep/Repo/Rocky and I! - Music Diaries

dihansse

Gender: Male
Age: 60

For me they are:

also:

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Daydream Nation by Sonic Youth

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Zen Arcade by Hüsker Dü

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Master Of Puppets by Metallica

IDK how ever much I'm into ranking albums I find it difficult to define a perfect album.

Mercury
Turn your back on the pay-you-back last call

Gender: Male
Location: St. Louis

dihansse wrote:

For me they are:

also:

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Daydream Nation by Sonic Youth

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Zen Arcade by Hüsker Dü

Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.

Master Of Puppets by Metallica

IDK how ever much I'm into ranking albums I find it difficult to define a perfect album.

Awesome stuff. I agree on Daydream Nation. You know my developing feelings on Zen Arcade/Husker Du. And master of puppets is indeed very very special. The songs on that album are unmatched by any other thrash album. I may like the riffs and style and stuff of other thrash more - but the way Metallica pulled off those timeless, winding, SONGS is unmatched.
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My Fave Metal - you won't believe #5!!!

LedZep

Mercury wrote:

I think while maybe not "perfect" - there are works of art or albums where I can't for the life of me imagine how I would somehow improve it or make it better. Perhaps there is something that can be "improved" in, say, Pink Moon - but sheesh when I listen to it the entire time, I'm utterly glued and engrossed and can hear no flaw or misplaced note.

Agreed. It's funny because Pink Moon is probably not a top 100 or all time for me (sometimes it can be, depending on my mood, but rarely), and I agree that there isn't a single thing that can be improved on the whole album. I guess there's a weird grey area where the album can be consistent as hell, "perfect" and I love it, but it's not an all time favourite. I think Fela Kuti has several albums like that - love the style, the songs and it's equally impressive all the way through, nothing is missing at all, and I still wouldn't name it among my absolute favourites of all time. Treasure by Cocteau Twins is another example of an immaculate album with a style I absolutely adore, but for some reason don't rate nearly as highly as something like VU & Nico, an album with several songs I don't mind skipping from time to time. Can't escape subjectivity I guess (nor do we need to).
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Mercury
Turn your back on the pay-you-back last call

Gender: Male
Location: St. Louis

LedZep wrote:

Agreed. It's funny because Pink Moon is probably not a top 100 or all time for me (sometimes it can be, depending on my mood, but rarely), and I agree that there isn't a single thing that can be improved on the whole album. I guess there's a weird grey area where the album can be consistent as hell, "perfect" and I love it, but it's not an all time favourite. I think Fela Kuti has several albums like that - love the style, the songs and it's equally impressive all the way through, nothing is missing at all, and I still wouldn't name it among my absolute favourites of all time. Treasure by Cocteau Twins is another example of an immaculate album with a style I absolutely adore, but for some reason don't rate nearly as highly as something like VU & Nico, an album with several songs I don't mind skipping from time to time. Can't escape subjectivity I guess (nor do we need to).

Yeah, excellent and agreed on Pink Moon (obviously I agree, I mentioned it lol - I'm a dork.)

There are albums like that for me, albums I find impeccable, I like/even Love it, nothing can be improved that these ears can hear and yet not a favorite or even really in contention for favorite status. They just don't move me like my sometimes much more flawed albums do. I mentioned earlier Pornography by The Cure as an example. Closer by Joy Division is another. And your mention of Fela Kuti is a good example. It's been a few years but I went through a Fela phase and found Zombie, Expensive Shit, and Sorrow Tears and Blood are all kickass and beautifully executed classics... but now I have no inclination to put them on my overall chart.

I have similar feelings about classic albums that fall into genres I honestly don't generally vibe with. Classic Shoegaze or Dream Pop, or moody Post Punk or Ambient or Electronic music or Jazz of various kinds etc etc... I can listen to in some cases near PERFECT albums and the fact that I enjoy them is a feat.

Anyway, yeah, good stuff.
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My Fave Metal - you won't believe #5!!!

kokkinos

Hey, looks like you have an interesting discussion going on.
As far as I’m concerned, there’s only ever been one perfect album (that would obviously be The Queen Is Dead) and that’s more or less the reason no other record can claim the title of “perfection”. To do so, it would have to be as good as the above point of reference and as we all know, that’s impossible (based on the premiss that, if you have two perfect albums, one can’t be more perfect than the other, they have to be equally perfect).
And what you are saying makes a lot of sense. Albums that showcase artistic ambition to a larger degree are more prone to a misstep of some kind and as a result can’t maintain the same level of perfection throughout, while the ones that are fully invested in a particular style/sound/idea/concept/whatever don’t suffer from the same problem as much.
Expanding on that thought, that’s the main reason there are many perfect songs and hardly any perfect albums. Many artists are fortunate – and talented – enough to strike gold once and capture that rare moment In a song, but translating that to a full album is another story.
Of course one might argue that nothing in art is so simple or one-sided. A part that may initially appear as breaking that perfection could be integral to the overall artistic expression of said album, making it more complete and genuine, it’s all relative I guess.
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Mercury
Turn your back on the pay-you-back last call

Gender: Male
Location: St. Louis

kokkinos wrote:

Hey, looks like you have an interesting discussion going on.
As far as I’m concerned, there’s only ever been one perfect album (that would obviously be The Queen Is Dead) and that’s more or less the reason no other record can claim the title of “perfection”. To do so, it would have to be as good as the above point of reference and as we all know, that’s impossible (based on the premiss that, if you have two perfect albums, one can’t be more perfect than the other, they have to be equally perfect).
And what you are saying makes a lot of sense. Albums that showcase artistic ambition to a larger degree are more prone to a misstep of some kind and as a result can’t maintain the same level of perfection throughout, while the ones that are fully invested in a particular style/sound/idea/concept/whatever don’t suffer from the same problem as much.
Expanding on that thought, that’s the main reason there are many perfect songs and hardly any perfect albums. Many artists are fortunate – and talented – enough to strike gold once and capture that rare moment In a song, but translating that to a full album is another story.
Of course one might argue that nothing in art is so simple or one-sided. A part that may initially appear as breaking that perfection could be integral to the overall artistic expression of said album, making it more complete and genuine, it’s all relative I guess.

Hey Kokkinos... Thanks for the comment.

I think I don't follow that there can't be 2 Perfect albums. If one is possible, then more are. Unless I'm misunderstanding your logic there.

I lean toward the idea that, in this universe, absolutes are unobtainable. So, perfection - being an absolute - is not possible. Yet the designation of 10/10 for me or 100/100 or whatever, is more saying "this piece of art has reached the highest tier of great art I've experienced in my opinion." A 10/10 is a first ballot hall of famer. Like when you get to a great enough peak of performance in a sport or a great enough career, you just say "yeah one of the very best of the best first ballot hall of fame legend." Could I then use an involved rating system for Sandy Koufax and say he was a 9.6/10 at his peak and had a 9.1/10 career? Yes... but I'd just say he had a 10/10, first ballot career and move on until I get into a ranking of greatest pitchers at which point a detailed, uber-significance state-of-mind may help me differentiate and rank Koufax compared to Maddux to Matthewson to Gooden etc.

Okay... I added that Baseball shit in after the fact. And I got carried away.

I have given probably 50 albums 10/10 scores out of considerably more than 50. It's a rare enough thing. But of those 10/10 albums, there ARE some that are even more significant. And of those there are still some more that are more. So...how does this work at all? It makes no fucking sense!!!! lol

I mean what relationship is there between the greatest Grindcore album ever I heard and the greatest jazz album? Nothing! By putting them on the same list of 10/10 perfect albums I am just saying "these ones is goood, lots of good yay i like these." It's that level of intelligence. Now I am getting into a ridiculous self-deprecating mood lol.

Okay, but The Queen Is Dead is a good one.

Can I ask you, PLEASE make an overall favorite albums chart? I wanna see (even if its super off the cuff) what your 20 or 40 or 100 fave albums are. Make it odd numbered - like top 37 - if you want. I have checked your profile here at least 5 times over the last 2 years or so hoping and praying there'd be an overall chart.

Oh and merry christmas!
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-Ryan

ONLY 4% of people can understand this chart! Come try!

My Fave Metal - you won't believe #5!!!

MadhattanJack
I mean, metal is okay, but...

Gender: Male

Mercury wrote:

Can I ask you, PLEASE make an overall favorite albums chart? I wanna see (even if its super off the cuff) what your 20 or 40 or 100 fave albums are. Make it even numbered if you want. I have checked your profile here at least 5 times over the last 2 years or so hoping and praying there'd be an overall chart.

Seconded! At the very least, we're never going to get The Queen Is Dead ranked above In the Aeroplane Over the Sea if it's biggest advocates don't even make All-Time Top 100 charts... as it stands, it needs 3,500 rank score points, which might seem insurmountable, at least in the short term. But it's like they say, evil only triumphs when good people do nothing.

Okay, that's not the exact quote, but let's not split hairs over this.

kokkinos

Mercury wrote:

Hey Kokkinos... Thanks for the comment.

I think I don't follow that there can't be 2 Perfect albums. If one is possible, then more are. Unless I'm misunderstanding your logic there.

I lean toward the idea that, in this universe, absolutes are unobtainable. So, perfection - being an absolute - is not possible. Yet the designation of 10/10 for me or 100/100 or whatever, is more saying "this piece of art has reached the highest tier of great art I've experienced in my opinion." A 10/10 is a first ballot hall of famer. Like when you get to a great enough peak of performance in a sport or a great enough career, you just say "yeah one of the very best of the best first ballot hall of fame legend." Could I then use an involved rating system for Sandy Koufax and say he was a 9.6/10 at his peak and had a 9.1/10 career? Yes... but I'd just say he had a 10/10, first ballot career and move on until I get into a ranking of greatest pitchers at which point a detailed, uber-significance state-of-mind may help me differentiate and rank Koufax compared to Maddux to Matthewson to Gooden etc.

Okay... I added that Baseball shit in after the fact. And I got carried away.

I have given probably 50 albums 10/10 scores out of considerably more than 50. It's a rare enough thing. But of those 10/10 albums, there ARE some that are even more significant. And of those there are still some more that are more. So...how does this work at all? It makes no fucking sense!!!! lol

I mean what relationship is there between the greatest Grindcore album ever I heard and the greatest jazz album? Nothing! By putting them on the same list of 10/10 perfect albums I am just saying "these ones is goood, lots of good yay i like these." It's that level of intelligence. Now I am getting into a ridiculous self-deprecating mood lol.

Okay, but The Queen Is Dead is a good one.

Can I ask you, PLEASE make an overall favorite albums chart? I wanna see (even if its super off the cuff) what your 20 or 40 or 100 fave albums are. Make it odd numbered - like top 37 - if you want. I have checked your profile here at least 5 times over the last 2 years or so hoping and praying there'd be an overall chart.

Oh and merry christmas!

Merry Christmas!
If The Queen Is Dead is 9.5/10 (10/10 is probably a place where God lies or something, out of reach for humans) then that sets the standard for “perfection”, another album would have to also get a 9.5/10 in order to qualify as perfect. So, two (or three or five) perfect albums are possible in theory, it’s just that, in my case, no such album exists. And yeah, I get what you are saying, it’s hard to compare The Smiths to, say, Mingus/Kanye/Dylan/you name it. I’m sure Scaruffi has developed a system for that, but I guess you have to take into account what each record tries to achieve and how successful it is in that regard – which is of course a subjective assessment. An album might be flawlessly executed, but the artistic statement it carries could be beyond the scope of my interests. If I had to narrow it down, I’d say personal enjoyment and relatability are the main factors that determine my rating of an album or song.
The idea of an overall chart comes back every now and then. Now that I’ve hit the brakes on the ‘60s project might actually be a good time for that, I definitely wouldn’t rule out that possibility.

MadhattanJack wrote:

Seconded! At the very least, we're never going to get The Queen Is Dead ranked above In the Aeroplane Over the Sea if it's biggest advocates don't even make All-Time Top 100 charts... as it stands, it needs 3,500 rank score points, which might seem insurmountable, at least in the short term. But it's like they say, evil only triumphs when good people do nothing.

Okay, that's not the exact quote, but let's not split hairs over this.

Yeah, and we also have to make sure it remains the best album of the ‘80s, Doolittle is breathing down our neck.
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mickilennial
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Gender: Female
Age: 35
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That's because Doolittle is the better (and more influential, impactful) record.

MadhattanJack
I mean, metal is okay, but...

Gender: Male

Gowi wrote:

That's because Doolittle is the better (and more influential, impactful) record.

I agree, and my own 80s chart has it ranked #13 with The Queen is Dead at #74. But let's not underestimate the remarkable increase in the number of morose English teenagers rocking the short-back 'n' sides with-artificially-receded-hairline look after those Smiths albums started coming out. The demand increase for collections of 19th-Century British poetry alone practically saved the UK publishing industry, and at a time when Thatcher was still the Prime Minister.

Still, none of this is important for our purposes. The Overall Chart is the prize we should keep our eyes on, and the fact is, we've got a cluster of three albums at #17, #18, and #19 that are within just 300 points of each other:

The Queen Is Dead by The Smiths (42,295)
London Calling by The Clash (42,067)
Doolittle by Pixies (42,014)

...and to move up, one of them has to get to 45,730, and preferably quite a bit higher than that. So while it may cause some grumbling, the logical candidate to focus on is the one with the most points now, and that's The Queen is Dead. I'll admit that it's bad timing, since the Queen actually did die recently. But we can't let that deter us. We must move forward!