Controversial Music Opinions On BEA! - Music

DommeDamian
Imperfect, sensitive Aspie with a melody addiction

Gender: Male
Age: 23
Location: where the flowers grow.

-The lyrics, songlenghts, and uninteresting choruses ruins Miseducation of Lauryn Hill for me. I really want to like it, but I just cannot.
-Personal significance > cultural significance.
-( ) is Sigur Rós' best album.
-Piano driven classical > orchestral classical music.
-Nas > Jay-Z on all fronts; lyrics, beats, hooks, voice, flow, and even discography.
_________________
My Top 100 :
www.besteveralbums.com/thechart.php?c=4...amp;page=1

My music:
- www.hyperfollow.com/dommedamian
Spotify: ----------------------------------------------------↓

theblueboy

raadfactoryxny wrote:

-Personal significance > cultural significance.

Interesting distinction. I would say it might depend on the context. To me cultural significance seems like the best way to evaluate/ rank the greatness of albums. It's more open minded and rational than relying on your own personal tastes. Also, personal significance changes massively over time anyway, which makes ranking albums this way frustrating to me.

Thanks for making that comment. I'm curious to hear what you and others think on this topic.

baystateoftheart
Neil Young as a butternut squash

Age: 29
Location: Massachusetts

Michael1981 wrote:

raadfactoryxny wrote:

-Personal significance > cultural significance.

Interesting distinction. I would say it might depend on the context. To me cultural significance seems like the best way to evaluate/ rank the greatness of albums. It's more open minded and rational than relying on your own personal tastes. Also, personal significance changes massively over time anyway, which makes ranking albums this way frustrating to me.

Thanks for making that comment. I'm curious to hear what you and others think on this topic.

Using cultural significance is just letting other people rank your favorites for you. Totally agree with raadfactoryxny on this one. Also, I don't think it's more open-minded to follow what music listeners at large have deemed to be significant when ranking.
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theblueboy

baystateoftheart wrote:

Using cultural significance is just letting other people rank your favorites for you.

Only if you are interested in creating a list of personal favourites. If you want to make a list of the greatest albums of all time, saying "well these are my personal favourites" doesn't hold much water.

Quote:

Also, I don't think it's more open-minded to follow what music listeners at large have deemed to be significant when ranking.

Well, it's not all that often that listeners or critics explicitly use cultural impact as a means of ranking albums so I wouldn't say it's particularly following others. I'm not going by an official definition of cultural significance-I'm assuming it would encompass factors beyond popularity (such as influence on other artists, longevity of appeal for fans and impact on other media,arts and ideas beyond music).

Yeah, there are definitely some consensus views out there on the cultural impact of certain albums but there's no need to take this prescriptively. It's still possible to challenge consensus views with an original argument about the cultural impact of an album.

DommeDamian
Imperfect, sensitive Aspie with a melody addiction

Gender: Male
Age: 23
Location: where the flowers grow.

Michael1981 wrote:

raadfactoryxny wrote:

-Personal significance > cultural significance.

Interesting distinction. I would say it might depend on the context. To me cultural significance seems like the best way to evaluate/ rank the greatness of albums. It's more open minded and rational than relying on your own personal tastes. Also, personal significance changes massively over time anyway, which makes ranking albums this way frustrating to me.

Thanks for making that comment. I'm curious to hear what you and others think on this topic.

Is Sgt Pepper your #1 album, because
a) you think it's rock music's most important album, or
b) it's the album that has spoken to you and redefined your spirit more than any other record?

a = cultural significance matters the most to you
b = personal significance matters the most to you

-

What I was thinking when I wrote my statement, is, do not force yourself to like something because others like it or it has played a big role in the culture you are apart of. Cultural impact also comes from the fact that many other people like it.
ITAOTS is a favorite album of mine, because of how much it resonates/touches/or changes me. And it is ranked #17th on overall rank, because it speaks to the other users individually.
I was also thinking about me liking musicians and albums that people despise (Hopsin, XXXTentacion, The Calling, Chris Brown), and disliking ditto (Lou Reed, Drake, Joni Mitchell, Lauryn Hill) that is part of my taste's significance, historically, and is widely acclaimed.

"It's still possible to challenge consensus views with an original argument about the cultural impact of an album."
Agree to disagree. It's more insightful (to me at least) to read awesome positive reviews of an acclaimed album you dislike, to try and read it from another perspective (e.g. Doolittle, Tonight's The Night both was albums I didn't like at first, but now I adore, especially the latter which has ended up in my chart)
_________________
My Top 100 :
www.besteveralbums.com/thechart.php?c=4...amp;page=1

My music:
- www.hyperfollow.com/dommedamian
Spotify: ----------------------------------------------------↓

baystateoftheart
Neil Young as a butternut squash

Age: 29
Location: Massachusetts

Michael1981 wrote:

baystateoftheart wrote:

Using cultural significance is just letting other people rank your favorites for you.

Only if you are interested in creating a list of personal favourites. If you want to make a list of the greatest albums of all time, saying "well these are my personal favourites" doesn't hold much water.

Quote:

Also, I don't think it's more open-minded to follow what music listeners at large have deemed to be significant when ranking.

Well, it's not all that often that listeners or critics explicitly use cultural impact as a means of ranking albums so I wouldn't say it's particularly following others. I'm not going by an official definition of cultural significance-I'm assuming it would encompass factors beyond popularity (such as influence on other artists, longevity of appeal for fans and impact on other media,arts and ideas beyond music).

Yeah, there are definitely some consensus views out there on the cultural impact of certain albums but there's no need to take this prescriptively. It's still possible to challenge consensus views with an original argument about the cultural impact of an album.

What is the point of making a list of the greatest albums of all time that's not a list of personal favorites? I would have been into that in the past, but now I guess it seems like an empty exercise to me.

It seems to rely on the premise of objectivity over subjectivity, which is an illusory goal in art criticism that only creates a big mess imo.
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DommeDamian
Imperfect, sensitive Aspie with a melody addiction

Gender: Male
Age: 23
Location: where the flowers grow.

baystateoftheart wrote:

What is the point of making a list of the greatest albums of all time that's not a list of personal favorites? I would have been into that in the past, but now I guess it seems like an empty exercise to me.

It seems to rely on the premise of objectivity over subjectivity, which is an illusory goal in art criticism that only creates a big mess imo.

Agree strongly
_________________
My Top 100 :
www.besteveralbums.com/thechart.php?c=4...amp;page=1

My music:
- www.hyperfollow.com/dommedamian
Spotify: ----------------------------------------------------↓

Tha1ChiefRocka
Yeah, well hey, I'm really sorry.

Location: Kansas

Quote:

Piano driven classical > orchestral classical music.

Do you just mean that you enjoy solo piano compositions as opposed to symphonies? That's fine, but their not really equatable. It be the same if you said, "I like electric guitars , but not rock bands."

I wouldn't consider that to be very controversial.

theblueboy

raadfactoryxny wrote:

Is Sgt Pepper your #1 album, because
a) you think it's rock music's most important album, or
b) it's the album that has spoken to you and redefined your spirit more than any other record?

a = cultural significance matters the most to you
b = personal significance matters the most to you

Well think there is a case to be made that it is the most significant album in UK/US popular culture. It has not redefined my spirit though I would more than happily stick it on right now. Definitely a.

-

Quote:

What I was thinking when I wrote my statement, is, do not force yourself to like something because others like it or it has played a big role in the culture you are apart of. Cultural impact also comes from the fact that many other people like it.
ITAOTS is a favorite album of mine, because of how much it resonates/touches/or changes me. And it is ranked #17th on overall rank, because it speaks to the other users individually.
I was also thinking about me liking musicians and albums that people despise (Hopsin, XXXTentacion, The Calling, Chris Brown), and disliking ditto (Lou Reed, Drake, Joni Mitchell, Lauryn Hill) that is part of my taste's significance, historically, and is widely acclaimed.

Yeah I agree. As I suspected, we are simply applying a different perspective to suit our preferred purpose. i.e. you are saying "establish your own tastes based on what you like not what is popular". I'm saying "establish the greatest albums of all time by considering which albums have had the greatest impact in popular culture not what you personally like". These are not contradictory arguments and I agree with both.

Quote:

"It's still possible to challenge consensus views with an original argument about the cultural impact of an album."
Agree to disagree. It's more insightful (to me at least) to read awesome positive reviews of an acclaimed album you dislike, to try and read it from another perspective (e.g. Doolittle, Tonight's The Night both was albums I didn't like at first, but now I adore, especially the latter which has ended up in my chart)

You are not really disagreeing with me. I was saying that there is still room for much debate about the cultural impact of albums and you haven't contradicted this. I agree its interesting to read reviews that conflict with personal tastes but that's probably if your intention is to learn more about your own tastes. I've merely said that considering cultural impact is the best way to try to establish what are the greatest albums of all time, which doesn't really relate to this.

theblueboy

baystateoftheart wrote:

What is the point of making a list of the greatest albums of all time that's not a list of personal favorites? I would have been into that in the past, but now I guess it seems like an empty exercise to me.

Well it can be used to make an argument for the greatest albums of all time (given the assumption that greatness will translate into cultural impact at some point). I think this is interesting. It's an academic exercise and wont change the world but its interesting food for thought. I think that people are drawn to answering these kinds of questions and find them stimulating. It's generally more meaningful and discussion worthy than someone saying "here are my personal favourite albums, please don't @ me". It's only interesting to find out about someones personal favourites if you want to find out about that person. For that reason it sits well with autobiographical writing (e.g. the Nick Hornby book about his favourite songs, which is basically a memoir).

Quote:

It seems to rely on the premise of objectivity over subjectivity, which is an illusory goal in art criticism that only creates a big mess imo.

Not at all. My argument is that it provides a better way of establishing greatness than taking a single persons perspective of what constitutes artistic merit. i.e. It is looking at the impact of an album on an entire culture not just its impact on one person. I think this creates a much more substantial and persuasive argument for the greatest alums of all time. It doesn't make it more objective in the scientific sense but you can still make an argument that is rational and meaningful without being scientifically objective.