Subject me to your favorite music! - Music Diaries

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BeA Sunflower

Location: Forest Park

Rhyner wrote:

I'm psyched that you're psyched about my approach. It makes me feel like I'm doing something right.

I just listened to Symphony No. 3 "The Camp Meeting" by Charles Ives, #115 on your Greatest Classical Music list. I enjoyed it very much. Not sure how it will help me better acclimate to Trout Mask Replica, or even if this is what you had in mind when you mentioned Ives, but a worthwhile listen nonetheless!

The symphony is scored for a chamber orchestra of a flute, oboe, clarinet, bassoon, two horns, trombone, bells, and strings (violins, violas, cellos, and double basses). (wikipedia)

TMR was also recorded with a chamber orchestra with a lot of same instrumentation IIRC.

This is my guess at our virtual coffee shop trivia board. lol.
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Definitely an interesting symphony. Just listened to it for the first time. Listened to New York Philharmonic's version.

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Rhyner wrote:

AfterHours, I intend to respond to your Trout Mask Replica comments directly at some point, but the consensus seems to be that tackling the album right away isn't the best way to start, so I'm going to go ahead and listen to all of the recommended music first and post my thoughts on it.

Some questions though:

Are there any specific 60s Howlin' Wolf songs you recommend? If not, I'll just look for whatever seems to be the most popular.

Smokestack Lightning, Evil is Going On, Killing Floor are quite good. You could also just try a "Best of"... You should immediately hear the influence and link to Beefheart, though Beefheart took it much further, exploding the blues and voice into largely unforeseen directions, psychological and temporal expressiveness.

Rhyner wrote:

Which Cage works do you recommend? I don't see any on any of your lists.

Keep in mind that there are probably at least 100+ works I am familiar with that I could add to my list, but haven't yet, because I haven't revisited them for a long time or just haven't decided on a rating yet (there will also be many works I have yet to become familiar with that I am sure will be added too, at some point in the future. There are probably at least 500 -- minimum -- 7.8+ works in Classical, and I will probably eventually learn that rough estimate is way too low).

The thing with Cage is he may not have any 7.8+ works (that I am aware of) except possibly his Concerto for Prepared Piano and Orchestra. His ideas tended to outreach his execution, and he was hugely influential towards other (often more talented) composers. He was more influential in spirit towards Beefheart than in direct musical similarity, in that TMR can be considered a massive study on tonality much like Cage's educational pieces (though TMR is much more congested, unrelenting, "human" and expressive than any Cage works I know). The above Concerto is well worth checking out and has noisy, startling passages that do perhaps allude to some of Beefheart's wild modus operandi...
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AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Rhyner wrote:

I'm psyched that you're psyched about my approach. It makes me feel like I'm doing something right.

I just listened to Symphony No. 3 "The Camp Meeting" by Charles Ives, #115 on your Greatest Classical Music list. I enjoyed it very much. Not sure how it will help me better acclimate to Trout Mask Replica, or even if this is what you had in mind when you mentioned Ives, but a worthwhile listen nonetheless!

You didn't have a favorite performance listed, so I just used a YouTube result that looked good. I can listen again if you have a particular recording you prefer. I'll probably listen to another recording either way, but if you want to guide me to an especially good one I would certainly appreciate it.

The main source would be Ives' 4th Symphony (especially the 2nd movement), in which a "stream-of-consciousness" of pictures, events, memories and nostalgic tributes of American history emerge and become eviscerated in and out of an unrelenting catastrophe of apocalyptic suspense, savage rhythms and embattled orchestration.

The listed Tilson Thomas rendition (w/ Chicago Orch) is my recommendation. Litton's might be even better if you can find it.
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Rhyner
soft silly music is meaningful magical

Gender: Male
Age: 36
Location: Utah

It's been over two weeks since I posted anything here. That doesn't mean I gave up or anything. I've actually listened to Ives's Symphony No. 4 several times in that period, and I haven't posted because I simply don't know what to say. I like parts of it. But a whole lot of it doesn't do anything for me. My least favorite aspects of the second movement, for example (since you singled it out as important, AfterHours), are the very things you say I should be paying attention to. "Stream-of-consciousness" music isn't particularly good music, to my uncultured ears. It just sounds messy. I definitely see why you recommend it as a step towards grokking Trout Mask Replica; problem is, I don't really grok it, so for me personally it's a bit of a misstep, for now at least. I'm happy to listen again if you think it will help, though.

Meanwhile, I'll be moving on. Going chronologically, the next work you recommended would be something by Bartók. You've got eight of his works on your greatest classical music thread. Six are ranked, two are in the "undecided" section. I'll go ahead and start with the earliest of the eight, String Quartet No. 3. Even if that's not the particular work you had in mind, I'm fine with over-listening to stuff. But if you do have a specific work in mind, I'll pay particular attention to it, so long as you tell me which one it is.

And I'm going to try to post more often. Even if I'm not sure what to say, I'll just say that I'm not sure what to say. I can tell already that this will take a while to get through each person's choice. Sorry if anyone further down the list was hoping to be reached sooner. But I'll get to you all eventually!

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Rhyner wrote:

It's been over two weeks since I posted anything here. That doesn't mean I gave up or anything. I've actually listened to Ives's Symphony No. 4 several times in that period, and I haven't posted because I simply don't know what to say. I like parts of it. But a whole lot of it doesn't do anything for me. My least favorite aspects of the second movement, for example (since you singled it out as important, AfterHours), are the very things you say I should be paying attention to. "Stream-of-consciousness" music isn't particularly good music, to my uncultured ears. It just sounds messy. I definitely see why you recommend it as a step towards grokking Trout Mask Replica; problem is, I don't really grok it, so for me personally it's a bit of a misstep, for now at least. I'm happy to listen again if you think it will help, though.

Meanwhile, I'll be moving on. Going chronologically, the next work you recommended would be something by Bartók. You've got eight of his works on your greatest classical music thread. Six are ranked, two are in the "undecided" section. I'll go ahead and start with the earliest of the eight, String Quartet No. 3. Even if that's not the particular work you had in mind, I'm fine with over-listening to stuff. But if you do have a specific work in mind, I'll pay particular attention to it, so long as you tell me which one it is.

And I'm going to try to post more often. Even if I'm not sure what to say, I'll just say that I'm not sure what to say. I can tell already that this will take a while to get through each person's choice. Sorry if anyone further down the list was hoping to be reached sooner. But I'll get to you all eventually!

Ives is the most accessible of the composers I mentioned. It is probably too much of a leap to grapple with modern Classical. I would recommend the Rock selections first, then Jazz (or mixed), then Classical (if still necessary). The Rock and Jazz are much closer in sound and emotion. The Classical are more creative/compositional inspirations/blueprints.
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Rhyner
soft silly music is meaningful magical

Gender: Male
Age: 36
Location: Utah

Okay, I can do Rock-Jazz-Classical. In that case, if I'm still going chronologically (within each genre), I guess I should start with Howlin' Wolf. Moanin' in the Moonlight covers two of the three songs you singled out and is his highest rated album on BEA, so I'll start with that.

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Rhyner wrote:

Okay, I can do Rock-Jazz-Classical. In that case, if I'm still going chronologically (within each genre), I guess I should start with Howlin' Wolf. Moanin' in the Moonlight covers two of the three songs you singled out and is his highest rated album on BEA, so I'll start with that.

Ok great, looking forward to it. Date order is a very logical way to go about it. I will probably post a listing of more specific jazz entries for you to try, perhaps later today/tonight.
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Rhyner
soft silly music is meaningful magical

Gender: Male
Age: 36
Location: Utah

I listened to Howlin' Wolf. Specifically, I listened to Moanin' in the Moonlight twice, then his self-titled 1962 album once, and then the three individual songs you named. I will also listen to the 1997 album His Best, but not until I get to 1997. Laughing

You're right. I definitely hear the similarity to Beefheart's vocals on certain songs. I like Howlin' Wolf more, though. His songs actually sound good. The music is good and the vocals work with it, not against it.

Next up is the 1966 album Freak Out! by The Mothers of Invention. Is there anything specific to listen for with this one? I've heard it at least a couple of times, and thus far it hasn't struck me as anything particularly special, but I'll give it another go or two.

AfterHours wrote:

I will probably post a listing of more specific jazz entries for you to try, perhaps later today/tonight.

That would be great! Thanks!

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Rhyner wrote:

I listened to Howlin' Wolf. Specifically, I listened to Moanin' in the Moonlight twice, then his self-titled 1962 album once, and then the three individual songs you named. I will also listen to the 1997 album His Best, but not until I get to 1997. Laughing

You're right. I definitely hear the similarity to Beefheart's vocals on certain songs. I like Howlin' Wolf more, though. His songs actually sound good. The music is good and the vocals work with it, not against it.

Next up is the 1966 album Freak Out! by The Mothers of Invention. Is there anything specific to listen for with this one? I've heard it at least a couple of times, and thus far it hasn't struck me as anything particularly special, but I'll give it another go or two.

That would be great! Thanks!

It seems like you may be mistaking Beefheart's music as having a different purpose than it does if you think "the vocals work against his music". He is not attempting to make simple, standard blues songs. Also, what does "sound good" mean to you? Can it only be melodic? Does it have to be within the "pop/mainstream/status quo" spectrum or do you also like artists that are more adventurous and expand out from this?

I may say something about Freak Out! but it would be more helpful to know a bit about your criteria first.
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Rhyner
soft silly music is meaningful magical

Gender: Male
Age: 36
Location: Utah

"Sound good" means just that. The experience of listening to it ("sound") is a positive one ("good"). I acknowledge it's a totally subjective thing, but honestly I don't have any deeper meaning than that.

As for whether music has to be melodic, mainstream, etc. or can be more adventurous and still "sound good", that's kind of one of the things I'm here to find out.

I don't have a strong intellectual grasp on what it is I like about the music that I like. Music, and in fact art in general, is in a big way a mystery to me. Some of it moves me, some of it doesn't, and most of the time I'm clueless as to what about it is causing these sometimes very powerful effects.

Yes, you would probably categorize the majority of the music I like and/or listen to as "within the pop/mainstream/status quo spectrum". And yes, it's probable that the further a given piece of music is from this spectrum, the less likely I would be to like it (at least on the first couple of listens). But what moves me moves me and what doesn't, doesn't. I don't have a whole lot of control over that beyond what I expose myself to, which could shape who I am and in turn affect my taste.

And that's the reason I started this thread. Well, one of three reasons. It's number two from the first post:

Rhyner wrote:

2. Discover new music, and revisit music I may have written off prematurely (most of the music I now love took many listens to grow on me).

But perhaps number three is the more pertinent one for this discussion:

Quote:

3. Become better at articulating my thoughts on the merits and flaws of music (and art generally).

Why do I like what I like? What makes music good, bad, exciting, boring, mainstream, adventurous? Is the quality of music an enigmatic alchemy of ineffable properties beyond the ken of mortal men and women, or is there some kind of scoring rubric to determine what's good and what's bad? Right now I lean toward the former, but there are plenty of people who do seem to know what they like and are able to explain why they like it. I'm hoping some of that will rub off on me if I engage with you folks about the music you like.

So...I can't exactly explain my criteria to you because I'm not sure what they are myself. Perhaps I'm just a musical simpleton. But perhaps if you explain to me your criteria and we have a discussion about that, it could help me get a sense of what my own are.