Trout Mask Replica vs. White Light/White Heat

[AfterHours]

[Tha1ChiefRocka]

I think both of the artists have become, so overexposed and analyzed at this point that they have probably lost all meaning associated with the artist's original vision, which only they know. It happens with all great works of art. I've never been one to apply meaning where it doesn't seem fit. Although it has a myriad of problems, I like some of the facets of Cleanth Brooks philosophy and "New Criticism". It was made for literature, particularly poetry, and it encourages looking at poetry as a, "self-contained and self-referential work". This is the way in which I feel about most forms of art. So, for Beefheart, if you take away all outside commentary and context, then what do you have? Is it the same, different?Personally, I feel that taking half an hour to go over Frownland is overdoing it, because I think it's fine with no explanation.

Anyway, i like VU better, so that's my vote.

Here's a little further explanation of what I was trying to say. Hopefully this will make sense.

"It was felt, especially by creative writers and by literary critics outside the academy, that the special aesthetic experience of poetry and literary language was lost in the welter of extraneous erudition and emotional effusions. Heather Dubrow notes that the prevailing focus of literary scholarship was on "the study of ethical values and philosophical issues through literature, the tracing of literary history, and ... political criticism". Literature was approached and literary scholarship did not focus on analysis of texts.[3]

New Critics believed the structure and meaning of the text were intimately connected and should not be analyzed separately. In order to bring the focus of literary studies back to analysis of the texts, they aimed to exclude the reader's response, the author's intention, historical and cultural contexts, and moralistic bias from their analysis."

"In response to critics like Hawkes, Cleanth Brooks, in his essay "The New Criticism" (1979), argued that the New Criticism was not diametrically opposed to the general principles of reader-response theory and that the two could complement one another. For instance, he stated, "If some of the New Critics have preferred to stress the writing rather than the writer, so have they given less stress to the reader—to the reader's response to the work. Yet no one in his right mind could forget the reader. He is essential for 'realizing' any poem or novel. . .Reader response is certainly worth studying." However, Brooks tempers his praise for the reader-response theory by noting its limitations, pointing out that, "to put meaning and valuation of a literary work at the mercy of any and every individual [reader] would reduce the study of literature to reader psychology and to the history of taste."

[AfterHours]

Going back to my original point, which was in partial, but respectful, contention with Amir's point about people proclaiming TMR's significance...

I will say that those not extensively familiar with Trout Mask Replica (and perhaps the history of painting too) are far less likely to agree with what I said. Most people consider the album a joke or mistake, but aren't familiar with it enough to recognize that it's, at the very least, a very profound, extremely elaborate and insightful, stunningly creative and intentional, joke or mistake. I would also say that the previous points I list (1-4) are prerequisites to illuminating this in its full glory, and that one should listen to it with those (especially 1 and 2) in mind at virtually all times, as they are virtually 100% prevalent, in varying guises, throughout. If successfully done (which is not too difficult once one has a basic acclimation to the work), the level of significance, its astounding emotional and conceptual depth, should become increasingly apparent until the work is completely overwhelming. And then the rest of what I said might make more sense, if it doesn't already.
_________________
Best Classical
Best Films
Best Paintings

[Puncture Repair]

[glynspsa]

This is a great summation of trout mask in my humble opinion. Awesome write up.

[Tap]

[Lastings]

that's right, the mascara snake, fast and bulbous.

[Skinny]

[Tap]

it's directed at music students, not a general audience tho. not like "oh I'm a student of music, I listen to everything", actual music students

[Skinny]