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| Poll: Revolver vs PSR&T |
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| Revolver |
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87% |
[28] |
| PSR&T |
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12% |
[4] |
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| Total Votes : 32 |
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| Author |
Message |
Fischman
RockMonster, JazzMeister, Bluesboy,ClassicalMaster
Gender: Male
Location: Land of Enchantment
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- #41
- Posted: 02/15/2018 17:52
- Post subject:
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I generally love to vote against the Beatles, but here we've got the one Beatle album I can get on with vs another artist I can never get on with, so Revolver it is without hesitation.
Even Sound of Silence didn't resonate with me until Disturbed did it. They brought an appropriate level of intensity to that otherwise sad sack song.
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad
Location: Ground Control
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- #42
- Posted: 02/16/2018 05:09
- Post subject:
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| Yann wrote: | | sethmadsen wrote: | | Yann wrote: |
I like Simon and Garfunkel but I think they are at their best when they're strictly pop. |
When might this be?
Also Taxman is one of my favorite Beatles songs... hehehe. To each their own. I guess I can see where you are coming from with the lyrics - they are simple, but they also are pretty cutting. I also love the bass and guitar work in it. |
Cool when Sethmadsen collect the “papers” 
About Taxman, you’re right about the rhythm section, and yes the song is quite engaging for that reason, but I’m not one of those Taxman/Rain/Paperback Writers admirers: really not their best melodies/tunes.
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First - no worries. People like what they like and they don't have to defend it. I end up learning when I ask why though. And yes, it is a bit simple on the melody side. Melody often suffers when focus is on syncopation, etc. I'm often drawn to the rhythm as much if not more than the melody. I generally find music with only a strong melody quite boring actually. Like those songs where you can just turn off the bass and only have really high treble and nothing really changed... hahaha. 8 times out of 10 it's because it is a boring work lacking any real depth (imo).
| Yann wrote: |
And I don’t find very entertaining a song about tax collection. (besides tax is good for investment, growth and reducting the ever growing inegality between the rich and the poor  ). |
I totally agree. Taxes have nearly always been the base of society in one form or another since the beginning of time. No man is an island. I don't really want to go into a political debate - but I will say I envy systems who actually use "taxation with true representation" - meaning the people get a good deal instead of corruption and waste.
As for the song - I like music that challenges status quo and asks questions/demands answers/puts a mirror to society - for me, that's what makes it great.
Perhaps we could get They Might Be Giants to sing us the IRS tax code though? Yeah... then I'd totally tune out.
| Yann wrote: |
About folk music, to me pop has mostly outdated it. These pop pionners have created a music that directly influenced today’s pop/rock music (regardless of R&B massive resurgence)
Whereas Jefferson Airplane’s folk is very dated to me (especially the singing) and I doubt there will be a Jefferson Airplane revival someday, even if their songs were good.
(deep choked 80’s voices will (or have) probably followed the same fate, except Spandau Ballet’s True, which is immortal)
to answer your question, The song Bridge over Troubled Water for example, I don't know if it's pop, but it doesn't have at all that sort of dated 60's folk singing. |
Hmmm interesting point of view. I'm not sure how to respond to it other than there's quite a few artists in 2017 still doing that folk music. I think it's because it often is contemplative and beautiful. I don't know Spandau Ballet's True - so no comment.
Interesting on Bridge Over Troubled Water - I think the string arrangement is a bit outdated. The vocals, to me, still have that contemplative feel to them... but I agree, it's more or less a pop song with incredible emotion (Garfunkel hitting the high notes?) You know those bands who you love, but actually inspired terrible music (Pearl Jam?) I'm afraid Bridge Over Trouble Water (even though I love it) inspired a lot of crappy music... stuff like Air Supply.
Anyway, I'm just rambling with my opinion. I'm sure half of it is wrong. Cheers mate!
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad
Location: Ground Control
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- #43
- Posted: 02/16/2018 05:12
- Post subject:
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| Fischman wrote: |
Even Sound of Silence didn't resonate with me until Disturbed did it. They brought an appropriate level of intensity to that otherwise sad sack song. |
Don't hold anything back!
I find the Disturbed version pretentious (there's that stupid word again!), even if a decent interpretation of the song and the original absolutely beautiful (but could've been recorded/mixed better).
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad
Location: Ground Control
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- #44
- Posted: 02/16/2018 05:23
- Post subject:
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| Michael1981 wrote: | | Yann wrote: | | sethmadsen wrote: | | Yann wrote: |
I like Simon and Garfunkel but I think they are at their best when they're strictly pop. |
When might this be?
Also Taxman is one of my favorite Beatles songs... hehehe. To each their own. I guess I can see where you are coming from with the lyrics - they are simple, but they also are pretty cutting. I also love the bass and guitar work in it. |
Cool when Sethmadsen collect the “papers”
About Taxman, you’re right about the rhythm section, and yes the song is quite engaging for that reason, but I’m not one of those Taxman/Rain/Paperback Writers admirers: really not their best melodies/tunes. And I don’t find very entertaining a song about tax collection. (besides tax is good for investment, growth and reducting the ever growing inegality between the rich and the poor ).
About folk music, to me pop has mostly outdated it. These pop pionners have created a music that directly influenced today’s pop/rock music (regardless of R&B massive resurgence)
Whereas Jefferson Airplane’s folk is very dated to me (especially the singing) and I doubt there will be a Jefferson Airplane revival someday, even if their songs were good.
(deep choked 80’s voices will (or have) probably followed the same fate, except Spandau Ballet’s True, which is immortal)
to answer your question, The song Bridge over Troubled Water for example, I don't know if it's pop, but it doesn't have at all that sort of dated 60's folk singing. |
Yeah, Seth is awesome on the feedback/ discussion 
I kinda like some 60s folk, though I don't know the scene well.
My problem is more that I feel like Simon and Garfunkel didnt quite know what direction they wanted to go in at the time of PSR&T. It seems to veer between folk, pop, a bit of a nod to jazz. Then pastiches of folk-rock and psych-rock as well. They seem cautious about 60s counter-culture but I don't think they say to much meaningful about it on this album really, compared to the Beatles or Dylan for example. Except for the powerful anti-Vietnam war feeling on two tracks that is. That doesn't make it a bad album of course, it just doesn't seem that culturally significant to me. |
The bolded statement might be what I love the most about the album. I know it is seen as a struggle, but sometimes the greatest works of art are created in chaos/unstable situations. A struggle.
Which counter-culture stuff are you referring to for all three? Worth discussing?
If you are talking about 7 'Oclock news - I love that juxtaposition. Absolutely beautiful.
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theblueboy
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- #45
- Posted: 02/16/2018 13:03
- Post subject:
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| sethmadsen wrote: | | Michael1981 wrote: |
They seem cautious about 60s counter-culture but I don't think they say to much meaningful about it on this album really, compared to the Beatles or Dylan for example. Except for the powerful anti-Vietnam war feeling on two tracks that is. That doesn't make it a bad album of course, it just doesn't seem that culturally significant to me. |
Which counter-culture stuff are you referring to for all three? Worth discussing?
If you are talking about 7 'Oclock news - I love that juxtaposition. Absolutely beautiful.
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Yeah, in terms of appreciating Revolver for me this counter-cultural thing is so important. I think this album is the Beatles expressing and reflecting counter-cultural ideas related to their experiences with LSD, hippyish ideas and even eastern religion. People talk about Tomorrow Never Knows a lot in that respect but really I think its the whole album expressing something of these ideas of heightened consciousness and connection, and the experience of psychedelic drugs.
I couldn't really enjoy this album until I could see it in that kind of way. If I want to listen to great Beatles tunes, harmonies and singing I might as well listen to one of the first five albums. Revolver is the Beatles going fully psychedelic. Pepper is as well, of course, but I find Revolver is maybe more idealistic and optimistic in its outlook than Pepper, making it probably the fabs most "hippy" album.
With Simon and Garfunkel, yeah I was meaning Silent Night/ 7 O'Clock News and Scarborough Fair Canticle. Both lovely juxtapositions of sweet folk music and concerns about the Vietnam war.
In terms of contrast to the Beatles, I don't think Simon and Garfunkel really embrace hippy counter-culture on this album. Big Bright Pleasure Machine is described on Wikipedia as a satire of hippy hedonism and "Poem on an underground wall" seems to cast them more as observers of transgression rather than active participants (though that may be over-interpreting). 59th Bridge Street (Feeling Groovy) sounds kinda hippyish, though I'm not sure if it's a little tongue-in-cheek or maybe just a songwriting exercise for Paul Simon.
Overall, I think they are striving to be literate commentators and write more grown-up songs in the style of Dylan. But on these earlier albums I don't think you could say they had even a remotely similar cultural impact as Dylan. They were just one-step (at least) behind him all the time and don't convince in the same way with their literary references on this album. I do like the album, just don't think its on the same level if you want to consider cultural importance.
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Fischman
RockMonster, JazzMeister, Bluesboy,ClassicalMaster
Gender: Male
Location: Land of Enchantment
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- #46
- Posted: 02/16/2018 15:29
- Post subject:
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| sethmadsen wrote: | | Fischman wrote: |
Even Sound of Silence didn't resonate with me until Disturbed did it. They brought an appropriate level of intensity to that otherwise sad sack song. |
Don't hold anything back!
I find the Disturbed version pretentious (there's that stupid word again!), even if a decent interpretation of the song and the original absolutely beautiful (but could've been recorded/mixed better). |
See, I don't find the Disturbed version pretentious at all. (but then I'm a big prog fan, so some might say I have an unusually high tolerance for pretentiousness ). But really, this is Disturbed--pretty much a straight up mainstream post-grunge/alt-metal band. They don't exactly maintain their fan base by throwing out grandiose intellectual gestures.
To me, it's S&G who sound pretentious with their incessant mix of "pretty" harmonies and understated deliver, as if that's some kind of magic formula that only they can deliver, but they think works for everything. To me, the lyrical content of Sound of Silence is much better served by demonstrating some angst and discontent rather than unwavering, quiet resignation. There is something maddening about this form of silence, and that needs to be expressed. The way the Disturbed version builds and swells sonically, just as the expression of the reaction to silence itself builds as the song progresses, is what truly brings life to the lyric. It is genuinely powerful, and the most powerful expression of the lyric possible. It moves my in a way the original never could.
It's rare that I think a cover exceeds, let alone blows away, the original. Other than Hendrix' Watchtower, there's not much I can think of offhand. And the gap here is far beyond the gap in Watchtower, which is saying something because I straight up hate Dylan.
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RockyRaccoon
Is it solipsistic in here or is it just me?
Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: Maryland
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Fischman
RockMonster, JazzMeister, Bluesboy,ClassicalMaster
Gender: Male
Location: Land of Enchantment
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- #48
- Posted: 02/16/2018 21:34
- Post subject:
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| RockyRaccoon wrote: | | Jesus you hate the Beatles and Dylan? My heart hurts. |
Neil Young, too
Actually I don't hate the Beatles, I just find them very hit or miss and think they're nowhere all they're cracked up to be. I do really like Revolver, and would actually rank it highly if it weren't for that stupid submarine song.
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad
Location: Ground Control
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- #49
- Posted: 02/17/2018 02:59
- Post subject:
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| Michael1981 wrote: | | sethmadsen wrote: | | Michael1981 wrote: |
They seem cautious about 60s counter-culture but I don't think they say to much meaningful about it on this album really, compared to the Beatles or Dylan for example. Except for the powerful anti-Vietnam war feeling on two tracks that is. That doesn't make it a bad album of course, it just doesn't seem that culturally significant to me. |
Which counter-culture stuff are you referring to for all three? Worth discussing?
If you are talking about 7 'Oclock news - I love that juxtaposition. Absolutely beautiful.
|
Yeah, in terms of appreciating Revolver for me this counter-cultural thing is so important. I think this album is the Beatles expressing and reflecting counter-cultural ideas related to their experiences with LSD, hippyish ideas and even eastern religion. People talk about Tomorrow Never Knows a lot in that respect but really I think its the whole album expressing something of these ideas of heightened consciousness and connection, and the experience of psychedelic drugs.
I couldn't really enjoy this album until I could see it in that kind of way. If I want to listen to great Beatles tunes, harmonies and singing I might as well listen to one of the first five albums. Revolver is the Beatles going fully psychedelic. Pepper is as well, of course, but I find Revolver is maybe more idealistic and optimistic in its outlook than Pepper, making it probably the fabs most "hippy" album.
With Simon and Garfunkel, yeah I was meaning Silent Night/ 7 O'Clock News and Scarborough Fair Canticle. Both lovely juxtapositions of sweet folk music and concerns about the Vietnam war.
In terms of contrast to the Beatles, I don't think Simon and Garfunkel really embrace hippy counter-culture on this album. Big Bright Pleasure Machine is described on Wikipedia as a satire of hippy hedonism and "Poem on an underground wall" seems to cast them more as observers of transgression rather than active participants (though that may be over-interpreting). 59th Bridge Street (Feeling Groovy) sounds kinda hippyish, though I'm not sure if it's a little tongue-in-cheek or maybe just a songwriting exercise for Paul Simon.
Overall, I think they are striving to be literate commentators and write more grown-up songs in the style of Dylan. But on these earlier albums I don't think you could say they had even a remotely similar cultural impact as Dylan. They were just one-step (at least) behind him all the time and don't convince in the same way with their literary references on this album. I do like the album, just don't think its on the same level if you want to consider cultural importance. |
This is true - I think the Beatnik's (S&G) weren't as culturally prolific as the Summer of Love hippies (even if the Beatles were brought into that, they themselves didn't classify themselves as such). But the fact that The Beatles were tapping into that Timothy Leary stuff and the others as you described, does make it culturally "more significant". Totally agree there.
But I still think the Beatnik stuff is culturally significant.
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theblueboy
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- #50
- Posted: 02/18/2018 17:53
- Post subject:
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| sethmadsen wrote: |
This is true - I think the Beatnik's (S&G) weren't as culturally prolific as the Summer of Love hippies (even if the Beatles were brought into that, they themselves didn't classify themselves as such). But the fact that The Beatles were tapping into that Timothy Leary stuff and the others as you described, does make it culturally "more significant". Totally agree there.
But I still think the Beatnik stuff is culturally significant. |
Good point. I hadn't thought of PSR&T as being a beatnick album, but it fits the bill perfectly from what I've just read about this. Though I'm not convinced it conveys ideas/feelings feelings of the beat generation/ beatnik's all that creatively or imaginatively. Seems like Dylan captured that freewheeling, anti-authoritarian, literate, "on the road" type of spirit in a much better way. Admittedly though I don't know much about this and have only heard PSR&T a few times.
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