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AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Surprisingly great hit pop album. Lorde is an expressive vocalist that finds a rather magical balance between the juxtaposition of her charismatic and expressive/raspy/aching yearn and imaginative, atmospheric and minimal arrangements that rather beautifully characterizes teenagehood arising through its pains, issues, excitement and dreams but always underneath it a duality of reservations, repercussions, nostalgia, post modern anxiety, emptiness and existential quandary.

I may not have bothered with this album had Scaruffi not highlighted it as a 7/10, thus inspiring me to give it a few listens.
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Facetious

Gender: Male
Age: 24
Location: Somewhere you've never been

AfterHours wrote:

Surprisingly great hit pop album. Lorde is an expressive vocalist that finds a rather magical balance between the juxtaposition of her charismatic and expressive/raspy/aching yearn and imaginative, atmospheric and minimal arrangements that rather beautifully characterizes teenagehood arising through its pains, issues, excitement and dreams but always underneath it a duality of reservations, repercussions, nostalgia, post modern anxiety, emptiness and existential quandary.

I may not have bothered with this album had Scaruffi not highlighted it as a 7/10, thus inspiring me to give it a few listens.

I was pretty surprised at how much Scaruffi liked it. I would've expected him to dismiss it as hollow and pretentious, a mistake I made on my first couple listens. I'm still not convinced it's 7/10 (currently 6.5 for me) although it will undoubtedly go down as a landmark work in the genre. IMO it should've been slightly shorter, it loses some momentum in the second half and cutting out a couple tracks and replacing with better ones might've pushed it to 7- or even 7. (Have you checked out the two EPs she released right before the album? I plan on listening, there might be something worth putting on my ultimate Pure Heroine playlist. Tell me if you find anything worth checking out there.)

Now if only Scaruffi would rate Emotion 7/10 so you would be inspired to give that a few listens too Razz

Also, reminder: definitely check out 808s and Heartbreak, it is another massively important album exploring minimalism in a pop context. Scaruffi underrated it IMO.

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Facetious wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

Surprisingly great hit pop album. Lorde is an expressive vocalist that finds a rather magical balance between the juxtaposition of her charismatic and expressive/raspy/aching yearn and imaginative, atmospheric and minimal arrangements that rather beautifully characterizes teenagehood arising through its pains, issues, excitement and dreams but always underneath it a duality of reservations, repercussions, nostalgia, post modern anxiety, emptiness and existential quandary.

I may not have bothered with this album had Scaruffi not highlighted it as a 7/10, thus inspiring me to give it a few listens.

I was pretty surprised at how much Scaruffi liked it. I would've expected him to dismiss it as hollow and pretentious, a mistake I made on my first couple listens. I'm still not convinced it's 7/10 (currently 6.5 for me) although it will undoubtedly go down as a landmark work in the genre. IMO it should've been slightly shorter, it loses some momentum in the second half and cutting out a couple tracks and replacing with better ones might've pushed it to 7- or even 7. (Have you checked out the two EPs she released right before the album? I plan on listening, there might be something worth putting on my ultimate Pure Heroine playlist. Tell me if you find anything worth checking out there.)

Now if only Scaruffi would rate Emotion 7/10 so you would be inspired to give that a few listens too Razz

Also, reminder: definitely check out 808s and Heartbreak, it is another massively important album exploring minimalism in a pop context. Scaruffi underrated it IMO.

Thanks, I actually think the last 3 tracks of Heroine are among its best, a fitting "aftermath" to its moody resonance and its circular arc (the album wraps back around upon itself, track 1 beginning right where the last track ends up). Very important to the album is its sense of nuanced emptiness and moodiness that finds its way inside its climaxes, regardless of their surface excitement -- and the often existential element (and introversion/anxiety) that pervades its arrangements and quieter, instrospective passages. The work makes a great analogy for the longing and yearning and moody emptiness behind the artificial lives and superficial happiness that so many young people live, and Lorde seems well aware of it and that she is turning the genre on its ear a bit, exposing this. White Teeth Teens might be my favorite song on the whole album, along with Tennis Court and 400 Lux perhaps. I think its pretty much flawless for what it is, without a weak link.

Heroine is vastly superior to Emotion. I would be shocked if Scaruffi rated Emotion that high, or really, much higher than 5.5 (I predict either 4/10 or 5/10).. But, sure enough, if he does, I will take what he says into account and revisit it to see if it improves for me. Its happened before for sure...

Thanks for the Kanye reminder Smile

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AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Hi Facetious, I just revisited The River. Not sure if I can help with more than I said before without taking specific notes while listening to the album (which I dont usually have time for). Here is where we left off, before I said Id get back to you...

Facetious wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

8.5/10
The River - Bruce Springsteen (1980)

I continue to be mystified by the high rating, even after reading your post about it. Can you provide specific examples of the nuances you feel are present in the faster-paced songs? My impression was that the album is a solid pop/rock album (7 or low 7.5) with a few slower songs adding some depth, two in particular standing out (The River and Drive All Night). Very moving, but overall a medium or high 7.5. I'm confused by how the "wall of sound" is so massively significant; it's just a common production trick that merely serves to heighten the anthemic feel of the songs. It was present on Born to Run as well, for a similar purpose although not exactly the same (the songs on The River are intentionally more humble and down-to-earth, adding to the populism). In fact, Born to Run is almost as good as The River probably.

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The following is what I said previously (to a different user):

"The River has a pretty staggering variety of emotions, all of them expressed successfully, but much more economically than other works. It is a synthesis of all his preoccupations/his entire career, in very tight highly focused compositional formats, that often feature much more ambiguous tones, sudden turns and swings in emotion than is immediately obvious (maybe even appearing superficial, when its actually the artist enraged and/or disillusioned about his own anthems/ethos propagandized by prior works).

I said the following about it very recently, which might help to further illuminate some of what makes it so compelling:

Revisited Bruce Springsteen's The River last night. Ever wondered why the hell I (or Scaruffi) rate/rank it so highly?

The River is perhaps the most "mainstream" album I (or Scaruffi) rate/rank above 8/10, and it's caused more than its fair share of head-scratching over the years.

I don't have time to devote to a fully fledged analysis right now, but I do feel the key points to pay attention to when listening are as follows. Assimilated with these in mind (attended to in real-time while listening), it may surprise you just how amazing the experience is.

Notice how the instrumentation and execution of the songs (faster paced songs especially) tends to be walls of granitic sound, vibrant and packed and whole -- with a lot of tonal/melodic/instrumental nuance/inter-weaving elements running through them. The songs tend to keep toppling upon its own prior phrases/verses so that a shape-shifting momentum of vibrant emotional freedom and ecstasy takes place in the expanding forward thrust of the instrumentation. These songs are packed with sound, and the shifts and turns are composed and resolved with an extreme economy and positive formal logic.

That in mind, notice how Springsteen's vocals (even in the faster paced songs) are often shifting between enthusiasm and wragged glory/exhaustion/disillusionment/nostalgia/aching regret/rage. This often adds a gripping juxtaposition and tension between voice and the roving, emphatic texture of the walls of sound backing him.

Further, and perhaps most importantly, this tension creates an amazing textural metaphor between the surface emotions of the music and Springsteen himself, in all the songs. In all the songs, Springsteen's voice sounds like it is inside the wall of sound but also trying to escape it, trying to break free, on the verge but also never getting too far from its musical center to entirely do so. Due to this juxtaposition of emotional/tonal contrasts (slight and large), each emphatic punch or cry or lament of his voice is a metaphor (but also physically in the textural balance itself) of him trying to escape his predicament/environment, which aligns flawlessly to the overall concept and Springsteen's ethos/modus operandi (the rebel spirit, "born to run" etc).

His voice is agreeably in the rhythm and flow of the music, in counterpoint with it, but also emotionally ambiguous, elusive, diametric or with further expressive facet(s) to it -- between yearning, passionate pleas and ferocious, violent urges to escape.

The final three songs mark the end of the road for all the hopeful, energetic paths strewn throughout the work (heretofore viewed from all angles) into a desperate emptiness, a sustained rejection of optimistic youth met by each increasingly lonely fate in succession (Price You Pay, Drive All Night, Wreck on the Highway).

Just some bullet points that might just improve the work by quite a bit for you, if you don't love it already."
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Dont know if I can put it much better than that without more time. If you listen to it, pay close attention to the frequent juxtaposition and dichtomy between his vocals and instrumentation. His vocals are often a "shadow" of enthusiasm (basically were once enthusiastic but now more thoroughly disillusioned). There is pretty much always this element of dissatisfaction (with these once enthusiastic ties and ideas and ideals about life) but now there is -- intermixed with this expression -- anger, rage, an almost violent dismissal of fortune. Listen to Ties that Bind again and you will hear it. As in so many of the "emphatic" songs, there is a juxtaposition, ambiguity and dichotomy between the instrumentation (which is raucous, jangly, roving, enthusiastic, emphatic, delirious) and the vocals, which "counterpoint" this in rhythm and harmony but are actually much closer to the aforementioned (more angered, upset or dissatisfied) expressions, with only a hint of previous ideals and fortunes and enthusiasms still envisioned. The slower songs, not necessarily better, are closer to the less ambiguous heart and emotional honesty of the work. Though even (most of) these tend to have touch of hopeful, colorful juxtaposition to the downtrodden, disillusioned, pained, nostalgic vocals.

Re: wall of sound significant ... I dont think its particularly significant on its own, but in its usage with The River it is a bit less obvious in message, more ambiguous and profound than in the more blatant expressiveness of Born to Run. I dont necessarily mean that as a dismissal or a significant plus or minus for either in and of itself -- just that it lends itself better to the emotional/thematic duality that Springsteen is expressing through The River. This is also very much a part of Born in the USA and, to a somewhat lesser degree, Born to Run -- just more obvious and less profound (and somewhat less singular a sound).
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AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

I have a little time now so...

Re: The River

Adding to the above ^^^ I would add that there is always a pervasive sense of desperation in (if I'm remembering correctly) every single song, whether lonely and desperate (for the slower, more subdued tracks) or galvanizing, generationally collective and forcefully (for the more emphatic or anthemic songs) ... or somewhere in between ... regardless, in addition to the above descriptors, this pervasive desperation is a very key expressive sensation to the whole work. And the whole becomes a massive ode and heartfelt anthem of nostalgia for lost time (each song a desperate race or fading grip to hold onto it). It is also seemingly galvanizing (calling forth) periods of fading inspiration/history with several songs that nostalgically recreate sounds and colorful evocations of the 40s and 50s.

Besides the more distraught songs, Springsteen is singing words and anthems, often of hope or love or relationships (etc) -- HOWEVER (in the emphatic songs) it is generally with a disatisfied, angry, upset tone, mixed with an undercurrent of perfunctory or forced or "gritted-teeth" elation. Examples abound throughout its tracks but perhaps none clearer than Crush on You in which he is screaming in proclaimations verging on pure, violent rage and a debased, fading elation, juxtaposed by the bouncy and excited instrumentation.

This lends a consistent sense that he is hurtling towards the ramifications expressed in the more slow, devastated, nostalgic or downtrodden tracks, and the sense of conceptual unity backs this. It also lends the work a tragedy in that Springsteen seems literally and metaphorically trapped in the false hope and ideals expressed by the arrangements, surrounding him which follow his often incongruous, juxtaposed emotional expressions, nevertheless in faultless counterpoint, in perfect, tightly wound and aligned compositional unity and thrust at all times. The granitic, roving and ceaselessly rhythmic charge and alignment of its compositions add perfectly to this sensation of no escape and ineluctable. Whereas in earlier work like Born to Run, he explodes out of his chains expressively, here he is trapped no matter his actions. This is the embodiment of disillusion, the culmimation of his ethos.
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Amirkhosro

Gender: Male
Age: 36
Location: Tehran

Here's an idea: Safe as Milk totally qualifies for this list. It's even more "pop" than Rocket to Russia, The River, Tiger Mountain, etc.

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Amirkhosro wrote:

Here's an idea: Safe as Milk totally qualifies for this list. It's even more "pop" than Rocket to Russia, The River, Tiger Mountain, etc.

Mmm hmmm... Shame on you

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Facetious

Gender: Male
Age: 24
Location: Somewhere you've never been

Random song recommendation: Vermillion by Sofi de la Torre. Similar to Lorde's style (particularly Ribs). I've been wanting to check out the EP it's from (there are almost no ratings of any of her albums or EPs on RateYourMusic though; it seems this single is by far her most popular release).

Also, I have no idea why Scaruffi loves Sylvan Esso's self-titled album so much (7.5/10), but it's probably a low 7 at least.

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Facetious wrote:

Random song recommendation: Vermillion by Sofi de la Torre. Similar to Lorde's style (particularly Ribs). I've been wanting to check out the EP it's from (there are almost no ratings of any of her albums or EPs on RateYourMusic though; it seems this single is by far her most popular release).

Also, I have no idea why Scaruffi loves Sylvan Esso's self-titled album so much (7.5/10), but it's probably a low 7 at least.

Thank you for the rec.

I checked out the Sylvan Esso s/t a few weeks ago and filed under "to be determined". I thought it was quite good but would need to familarize myself more before decided on a rating/ranking.
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Facetious

Gender: Male
Age: 24
Location: Somewhere you've never been

What do you think of Love/Hate by The-Dream?