Best Pop Albums - Music Diaries - Forums : Best Ever Albums

DommeDamian
Imperfect, sensitive Aspie with a melody addiction

Gender: Male
Age: 23
Location: where the flowers grow.

AfterHours wrote:

More later... (very busy, little time)

Take your time. I'll be responding when you're done Smile

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

raadfactoryxny wrote:

Take your time. I'll be responding when you're done Smile

Go for it...

Not sure how much longer talking about Michael Jackson's "expressive impact, depth and profundity" can hold my interest though.

Barely holding on here... Laughing

Like any artist he is of course expressing "something" which I am not surprised if his hardcore fans find revolutionary/mind-blowing/powerful/profound, etc...

The short answer is that, no he doesnt deserve to be on this list except perhaps Thriller in the 7's (which I go back and forth on it being 6.5 or 7). And no, he is not the "King of Pop" (unless the criteria is sales). I would probably go with Todd Rundgren ...and/or XTC/Alan Partridge, or possibly Neutral Milk Hotel/Jeff Mangum (which would include his work with Olivia Tremor Control). These were artists that were far superior in terms of substance and at least as melodically gifted. And if we are primarily judging composition and catchy (but meaningful) melodic expression, regardless of genre, Mozart is the greatest of all time (probably by far). Vivaldi's Four Seasons, Schubert's 9th or Mozart's Don Giovanni (or Jupiter Symphony? Piano Conc #21?) perhaps the greatest examples in music history.
_________________
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DommeDamian
Imperfect, sensitive Aspie with a melody addiction

Gender: Male
Age: 23
Location: where the flowers grow.

AfterHours wrote:

Go for it...

Not sure how much longer talking about Michael Jackson's "expressive impact, depth and profundity" can hold my interest though.

Barely holding on here... Laughing

Like any artist he is of course expressing "something" which I am not surprised if his hardcore fans find revolutionary/mind-blowing/powerful/profound, etc...

The short answer is that, no he doesnt deserve to be on this list except perhaps Thriller in the 7's (which I go back and forth on it being 6.5 or 7). And no, he is not the "King of Pop" (unless the criteria is sales). I would probably go with Todd Rundgren ...and/or XTC/Alan Partridge, or possibly Neutral Milk Hotel/Jeff Mangum (which would include his work with Olivia Tremor Control). These were artists that were far superior in terms of substance and at least as melodically gifted. And if we are primarily judging composition and catchy (but meaningful) melodic expression, regardless of genre, Mozart is the greatest of all time (probably by far). Vivaldi's Four Seasons, Schubert's 9th or Mozart's Don Giovanni (or Jupiter Symphony? Piano Conc #21?) perhaps the greatest examples in music history.

No worries at all.
There are many things I could've said, but in the end, we both are gonna stay with the same opinion as beforehand. Which is completely fine. And, it is your list, not mine - so I respect and accept that you don't include him here. And I definitely respect you for having ITAOTS as the best pop album Surprised

.
What I definitely liked about this little discussion was that my excitement for Curtis Mayfield albums increased, so thank you for that. Classical music is incomparable when it comes to melodiousness in general, so I'll give you a pass on that as well.
One more thing though, what songs by MJ do you 'like' the most? Just curious.

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

raadfactoryxny wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

Go for it...

Not sure how much longer talking about Michael Jackson's "expressive impact, depth and profundity" can hold my interest though.

Barely holding on here... Laughing

Like any artist he is of course expressing "something" which I am not surprised if his hardcore fans find revolutionary/mind-blowing/powerful/profound, etc...

The short answer is that, no he doesnt deserve to be on this list except perhaps Thriller in the 7's (which I go back and forth on it being 6.5 or 7). And no, he is not the "King of Pop" (unless the criteria is sales). I would probably go with Todd Rundgren ...and/or XTC/Alan Partridge, or possibly Neutral Milk Hotel/Jeff Mangum (which would include his work with Olivia Tremor Control). These were artists that were far superior in terms of substance and at least as melodically gifted. And if we are primarily judging composition and catchy (but meaningful) melodic expression, regardless of genre, Mozart is the greatest of all time (probably by far). Vivaldi's Four Seasons, Schubert's 9th or Mozart's Don Giovanni (or Jupiter Symphony? Piano Conc #21?) perhaps the greatest examples in music history.

No worries at all.
There are many things I could've said, but in the end, we both are gonna stay with the same opinion as beforehand. Which is completely fine. And, it is your list, not mine - so I respect and accept that you don't include him here. And I definitely respect you for having ITAOTS as the best pop album Surprised

.
What I definitely liked about this little discussion was that my excitement for Curtis Mayfield albums increased, so thank you for that. Classical music is incomparable when it comes to melodiousness in general, so I'll give you a pass on that as well.
One more thing though, what songs by MJ do you 'like' the most? Just curious.

Ok cool - fair enough Smile

Yes ITAOTS is quite something. Several months ago, I wrote an "unofficial" review/analysis in reply to another user asking me about it that might interest you ... gives some insight into my thoughts about it ...among many misc descriptions of it I've given over the years about it. Here:

"Re: Aeroplane

The entire album is a never ending circle/spiral through time, from its merry-go-round and unified emotional arc, down to the cyclic structures of individual songs, even down to the circular chordal sequences. As a whole, it becomes akin to a single, elongated stream-of-consciousness that is constantly expanding or delving deeper into itself, a series of visions consistently on the verge of spinning out of control.

It is possibly the most haphazardly heart-on-sleeve album of all time, erupting in a whole new level of emotional honesty, conviction and abandon for songs realized primarily in strict pop formats. The singer, Jeff Mangum, is completely uninhibited and lost in the moment, and his backing band is extraordinarily evocative and nearly his equal in spontaneity. The album is performed as if it all just suddenly happened in a burst of miraculous inspiration. Lightning in a bottle that can never be repeated (not even by Mangum himself). Incredibly it doesn't come across as pretentious (which should be impossible considering its content and how it is expressed) because none of it sounds even remotely premeditated, but overwhelmingly inspired in the exact moment of elicitation. This is practically revolutionary for "pop music" which is generally highly contrived and the opposite of such an inspiration and epiphany of expression. It amounts to an anti-thesis or dichotomy upon the genre itself, an expressive force of nature its format is designed to inhibit, a paradigm shift for pop music and an emotional liberation and blueprint for artists ever since.

The album reinvigorates the young Bob Dylan in its folk, evangelical tones and streams-of-consciousness. It reinvigorates the wragged glory and moral odysseys of Neil Young. It reinvigorates the surreal Pop Art of Pearls Before Swine and The Beatles' Strawberry Fields Forever and Across the Universe. It reinvigorates the wild, circus atmospheres of Frank Zappa's masterpieces. It reinvigorates the awestruck, characterful vocal elocution and sonority of Stan Ridgway's most expressive works.

It synthesizes all of these, surpassing them into its own inimitable delirium, an incredible outpouring of courageous emotional honesty.

Emotionally the album constantly strikes a dilated paradox between overwhelming depression, sympathy, loss and nostalgia with an awestruck, child-like wonder or ecstacy. Virtually every phrase of voice and instrument holds this juxtaposition to bear in wide-eyed visions and lullabies. Due to this, the result is simultaneously devastating and life-affirming.

Ultimately its emotional expressions are a tremendous suffering of abandonment, as if in great sympathy and tenderness, from a longing, yearning and needy newborn or child to his dying mother. Its lullabies are the sound (literally, physically) of Mangum being cradled and rocking interminably and inconsolably in the devastation and disbelief at such irreversible loss. Ultimately, it is Mangum, through an astonishing and paralyzing emotional transference, physically and expressively becoming the Anne Frank of her diaries merged unto his own, eliciting a synthesis of his personality through hers in a collision of shock and despair, carrying her dead body against his in monumental scenes of burden and compassion."

___________________

You may want to avail yourself of my "Greatest Classical" and "Best Classical Recordings" lists (links beneath this post) if you haven't already.

MJ favorites might be Wanna Be Startin Something, Billie Jean, Smooth Criminal
_________________
Best Classical
Best Films
Best Paintings

DommeDamian
Imperfect, sensitive Aspie with a melody addiction

Gender: Male
Age: 23
Location: where the flowers grow.

AfterHours wrote:

raadfactoryxny wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

Go for it...

Not sure how much longer talking about Michael Jackson's "expressive impact, depth and profundity" can hold my interest though.

Barely holding on here... Laughing

Like any artist he is of course expressing "something" which I am not surprised if his hardcore fans find revolutionary/mind-blowing/powerful/profound, etc...

The short answer is that, no he doesnt deserve to be on this list except perhaps Thriller in the 7's (which I go back and forth on it being 6.5 or 7). And no, he is not the "King of Pop" (unless the criteria is sales). I would probably go with Todd Rundgren ...and/or XTC/Alan Partridge, or possibly Neutral Milk Hotel/Jeff Mangum (which would include his work with Olivia Tremor Control). These were artists that were far superior in terms of substance and at least as melodically gifted. And if we are primarily judging composition and catchy (but meaningful) melodic expression, regardless of genre, Mozart is the greatest of all time (probably by far). Vivaldi's Four Seasons, Schubert's 9th or Mozart's Don Giovanni (or Jupiter Symphony? Piano Conc #21?) perhaps the greatest examples in music history.

No worries at all.
There are many things I could've said, but in the end, we both are gonna stay with the same opinion as beforehand. Which is completely fine. And, it is your list, not mine - so I respect and accept that you don't include him here. And I definitely respect you for having ITAOTS as the best pop album Surprised

.
What I definitely liked about this little discussion was that my excitement for Curtis Mayfield albums increased, so thank you for that. Classical music is incomparable when it comes to melodiousness in general, so I'll give you a pass on that as well.
One more thing though, what songs by MJ do you 'like' the most? Just curious.

Ok cool - fair enough Smile

Yes ITAOTS is quite something. Several months ago, I wrote an "unofficial" review/analysis in reply to another user asking me about it that might interest you ... gives some insight into my thoughts about it ...among many misc descriptions of it I've given over the years about it. Here:

"Re: Aeroplane

The entire album is a never ending circle/spiral through time, from its merry-go-round and unified emotional arc, down to the cyclic structures of individual songs, even down to the circular chordal sequences. As a whole, it becomes akin to a single, elongated stream-of-consciousness that is constantly expanding or delving deeper into itself, a series of visions consistently on the verge of spinning out of control.

It is possibly the most haphazardly heart-on-sleeve album of all time, erupting in a whole new level of emotional honesty, conviction and abandon for songs realized primarily in strict pop formats. The singer, Jeff Mangum, is completely uninhibited and lost in the moment, and his backing band is extraordinarily evocative and nearly his equal in spontaneity. The album is performed as if it all just suddenly happened in a burst of miraculous inspiration. Lightning in a bottle that can never be repeated (not even by Mangum himself). Incredibly it doesn't come across as pretentious (which should be impossible considering its content and how it is expressed) because none of it sounds even remotely premeditated, but overwhelmingly inspired in the exact moment of elicitation. This is practically revolutionary for "pop music" which is generally highly contrived and the opposite of such an inspiration and epiphany of expression. It amounts to an anti-thesis or dichotomy upon the genre itself, an expressive force of nature its format is designed to inhibit, a paradigm shift for pop music and an emotional liberation and blueprint for artists ever since.

The album reinvigorates the young Bob Dylan in its folk, evangelical tones and streams-of-consciousness. It reinvigorates the wragged glory and moral odysseys of Neil Young. It reinvigorates the surreal Pop Art of Pearls Before Swine and The Beatles' Strawberry Fields Forever and Across the Universe. It reinvigorates the wild, circus atmospheres of Frank Zappa's masterpieces. It reinvigorates the awestruck, characterful vocal elocution and sonority of Stan Ridgway's most expressive works.

It synthesizes all of these, surpassing them into its own inimitable delirium, an incredible outpouring of courageous emotional honesty.

Emotionally the album constantly strikes a dilated paradox between overwhelming depression, sympathy, loss and nostalgia with an awestruck, child-like wonder or ecstacy. Virtually every phrase of voice and instrument holds this juxtaposition to bear in wide-eyed visions and lullabies. Due to this, the result is simultaneously devastating and life-affirming.

Ultimately its emotional expressions are a tremendous suffering of abandonment, as if in great sympathy and tenderness, from a longing, yearning and needy newborn or child to his dying mother. Its lullabies are the sound (literally, physically) of Mangum being cradled and rocking interminably and inconsolably in the devastation and disbelief at such irreversible loss. Ultimately, it is Mangum, through an astonishing and paralyzing emotional transference, physically and expressively becoming the Anne Frank of her diaries merged unto his own, eliciting a synthesis of his personality through hers in a collision of shock and despair, carrying her dead body against his in monumental scenes of burden and compassion."

___________________

You may want to avail yourself of my "Greatest Classical" and "Best Classical Recordings" lists (links beneath this post) if you haven't already.

MJ favorites might be Wanna Be Startin Something, Billie Jean, Smooth Criminal

That description/thought/analysis about Aeroplane is still jaw-dropping. One of the best to this albums, along with some RYM-favorites. Everytime I think, or played the album, the better it gets and the more layers I discover. Very few bodies of works does that.
My two favorite analysis' of yours are this and Rock Bottom. Thanks for that again, have a nice night.

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

raadfactoryxny wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

raadfactoryxny wrote:

AfterHo urs wrote:

Go for it...

Not sure how much longer talking about Michael Jackson's "expressive impact, depth and profundity" can hold my interest though.

Barely holding on here... Laughing

Like any artist he is of course expressing "something" which I am not surprised if his hardcore fans find revolutionary/mind-blowing/powerful/profound, etc...

The short answer is that, no he doesnt deserve to be on this list except perhaps Thriller in the 7's (which I go back and forth on it being 6.5 or 7). And no, he is not the "King of Pop" (unless the criteria is sales). I would probably go with Todd Rundgren ...and/or XTC/Alan Partridge, or possibly Neutral Milk Hotel/Jeff Mangum (which would include his work with Olivia Tremor Control). These were artists that were far superior in terms of substance and at least as melodically gifted. And if we are primarily judging composition and catchy (but meaningful) melodic expression, regardless of genre, Mozart is the greatest of all time (probably by far). Vivaldi's Four Seasons, Schubert's 9th or Mozart's Don Giovanni (or Jupiter Symphony? Piano Conc #21?) perhaps the greatest examples in music history.

No worries at all.
There are many things I could've said, but in the end, we both are gonna stay with the same opinion as beforehand. Which is completely fine. And, it is your list, not mine - so I respect and accept that you don't include him here. And I definitely respect you for having ITAOTS as the best pop album Surprised

.
What I definitely liked about this little discussion was that my excitement for Curtis Mayfield albums increased, so thank you for that. Classical music is incomparable when it comes to melodiousness in general, so I'll give you a pass on that as well.
One more thing though, what songs by MJ do you 'like' the most? Just curious.

Ok cool - fair enough Smile

Yes ITAOTS is quite something. Several months ago, I wrote an "unofficial" review/analysis in reply to another user asking me about it that might interest you ... gives some insight into my thoughts about it ...among many misc descriptions of it I've given over the years about it. Here:

"Re: Aeroplane

The entire album is a never ending circle/spiral through time, from its merry-go-round and unified emotional arc, down to the cyclic structures of individual songs, even down to the circular chordal sequences. As a whole, it becomes akin to a single, elongated stream-of-consciousness that is constantly expanding or delving deeper into itself, a series of visions consistently on the verge of spinning out of control.

It is possibly the most haphazardly heart-on-sleeve album of all time, erupting in a whole new level of emotional honesty, conviction and abandon for songs realized primarily in strict pop formats. The singer, Jeff Mangum, is completely uninhibited and lost in the moment, and his backing band is extraordinarily evocative and nearly his equal in spontaneity. The album is performed as if it all just suddenly happened in a burst of miraculous inspiration. Lightning in a bottle that can never be repeated (not even by Mangum himself). Incredibly it doesn't come across as pretentious (which should be impossible considering its content and how it is expressed) because none of it sounds even remotely premeditated, but overwhelmingly inspired in the exact moment of elicitation. This is practically revolutionary for "pop music" which is generally highly contrived and the opposite of such an inspiration and epiphany of expression. It amounts to an anti-thesis or dichotomy upon the genre itself, an expressive force of nature its format is designed to inhibit, a paradigm shift for pop music and an emotional liberation and blueprint for artists ever since.

The album reinvigorates the young Bob Dylan in its folk, evangelical tones and streams-of-consciousness. It reinvigorates the wragged glory and moral odysseys of Neil Young. It reinvigorates the surreal Pop Art of Pearls Before Swine and The Beatles' Strawberry Fields Forever and Across the Universe. It reinvigorates the wild, circus atmospheres of Frank Zappa's masterpieces. It reinvigorates the awestruck, characterful vocal elocution and sonority of Stan Ridgway's most expressive works.

It synthesizes all of these, surpassing them into its own inimitable delirium, an incredible outpouring of courageous emotional honesty.

Emotionally the album constantly strikes a dilated paradox between overwhelming depression, sympathy, loss and nostalgia with an awestruck, child-like wonder or ecstacy. Virtually every phrase of voice and instrument holds this juxtaposition to bear in wide-eyed visions and lullabies. Due to this, the result is simultaneously devastating and life-affirming.

Ultimately its emotional expressions are a tremendous suffering of abandonment, as if in great sympathy and tenderness, from a longing, yearning and needy newborn or child to his dying mother. Its lullabies are the sound (literally, physically) of Mangum being cradled and rocking interminably and inconsolably in the devastation and disbelief at such irreversible loss. Ultimately, it is Mangum, through an astonishing and paralyzing emotional transference, physically and expressively becoming the Anne Frank of her diaries merged unto his own, eliciting a synthesis of his personality through hers in a collision of shock and despair, carrying her dead body against his in monumental scenes of burden and compassion."

___________________

You may want to avail yourself of my "Greatest Classical" and "Best Classical Recordings" lists (links beneath this post) if you haven't already.

MJ favorites might be Wanna Be Startin Something, Billie Jean, Smooth Criminal

That description/thought/analysis about Aeroplane is still jaw-dropping. One of the best to this albums, along with some RYM-favorites. Everytime I think, or played the album, the better it gets and the more layers I discover. Very few bodies of works does that.
My two favorite analysis' of yours are this and Rock Bottom. Thanks for that again, have a nice night.

You're welcome and thank you too Smile

_________________
Best Classical
Best Films
Best Paintings

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Poptimists can rejoice! The "impossible" has happened!? Laughing

No, not Tiger Woods winning the Masters...

The Beach Boys' Pet Sounds climbed over the ramparts, charged the King and broke through onto my "Greatest Albums of All Time" list (7.3+).

Applause

DelBocaVista and I were discussing the album a little (by PM) a couple days ago and I (briefly) explained my thoughts on the matter as follows (below, with some edits). Note that this is not intended as anything more than a somewhat haphazard "review", just some pointers, not to be confused with a more considered review/analysis, which I'll probably do sooner or later:

"My recent revisits of Mozart and Gershwin enhanced my appreciation of its particular orchestration (enchanted/enraptured/near-surreal), its particular tonalities and harmonic brilliance and overall sound world which is full of wonder -- highly colorful and enlivened but also seen or imagined through the visage of translucent, aching, dreary but poetically beautiful, melancholy and tears ... its particular, graceful, "dexterous" sense of rhythm and blend of semi-ambiguous/multi-faceted emotions conveyed (almost always a deft melancholy while maintaining a sense of liveliness/cheerfulness/vividness ... its timbre/tonality and melodies are basically a FUSING of this so that its gestures, choruses, expressions seem to mean one always comes with the other...). Any schmaltz is probably overcome by how fulfilling its sound world, its purity and innocence, its melodies and orchestrations are, how much consideration has been given to the exact elocution of the vocals/gestures (which are essentially an "orchestral" section unto themselves ... immersed in a highly considered and graceful melancholy, but never sloppy -- always maintaining its composure, its posture, its elegance, as if each line is being delivered by a great orator ... very Mozart) and the thoughtfulness behind its rather mature sense of melody, exotic instrumentation and rhythm -- all as if the emotional spontaneity and graceful wide-eyed gesture of a child, without psychological complication. Its sound is the sound of the happiness of youth meeting the melancholy of loss, heartbreak and adulthood for the first time."
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baystateoftheart
Neil Young as a butternut squash

Age: 29
Location: Massachusetts

AfterHours wrote:

Poptimists can rejoice! The "impossible" has happened!? Laughing

No, not Tiger Woods winning the Masters...

The Beach Boys' Pet Sounds climbed over the ramparts, charged the King and broke through onto my "Greatest Albums of All Time" list (7.3+).

Applause

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Facetious

Gender: Male
Age: 24
Location: Somewhere you've never been

What have you listened to from the Flaming Lips' 90s work? Transmissions from the Satellite Heart, Clouds Taste Metallic, and The Soft Bulletin are good candidates for this list (Hit to Death in the Future Head is also great but I'm not sure if it's melodic enough to qualify; their remaining 90s albums are excellent but definitely don't qualify).

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Facetious wrote:

What have you 2listened to from the Flaming Lips' 90s work? Transmissions from the Satellite Heart, Clouds Taste Metallic, and The Soft Bulletin are good candidates for this list (Hit to Death in the Future Head is also great but I'm not sure if it's melodic enough to qualify; their remaining 90s albums are excellent but definitely don't qualify).

I'm not totally sure but I've heard most or maybe all of them at one time or another. In the late 90s/early 2000s I got pretty into them for a bit.

I recently revisited Soft Bulletin a couple weeks ago because I thought it could make the leap from my current 6.5-rating. Also, thought it might be good timing while I was extra enamored with Pet Sounds, Gershwin and Mozart. But I would probably lean more to a 6 instead after that, though Ill give it 1 or 2 additional tries before deciding. Basically, it is a good album, but I found it much too reliant on its (great) production quality than its actual content. Though pretty colorful, its kind of clumsy at times and not particularly great at psychedelia (ex: compare to the otherwordly Deserter's Songs ... and XTCs Skylarking which seems like a key touchstone for SB). The vocals would probably be fine in a more psychedelic work (such as their earlier stuff) but are usually too naive, limited and underwhelming for the songs that are closer to straight melodic pop (they mitigate moments that would be more beautiful or compelling or potent otherwise). There is clearly an end-of the millenium existential vibe here (from the confused mind or stupor of someone on LSD) and the work seems to also come from a place of pending tragedy, passed through a naive and colorful visage (an escape from reality?) though Im not sure it really fulfills these. It might work as a concoction that includes parody somewhere between XTC (Skylarking), Beach Boys (Pet Sounds, Smile), early Disney, Opera buffa (Mozart, Gershwin) and 60s Zappa ... but Im not sure either if its truly effective wholly enough here. Maybe. Basically it's a naive album (from all angles: conceptually, expressively), which can be charming/endearing, and it has some great -- even striking -- moments (and a few touching ones), but too often lacks the expressive/compositional maturity, consistency and impact that the Pop 7s and above tend to have.

Anyway, as you can tell I am still uncertain of its merits. It has a shot...
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