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YoungPunk
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- #41
- Posted: 04/22/2018 01:23
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@Fischman
I don't know about jazz but I find modern classical a load of steaming hot garbage
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Gender: Female
Age: 38
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- #42
- Posted: 04/22/2018 01:33
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| Fischman wrote: | | So when we start thinking about "distinguished musical composition," then Lamar's selection becomes even more suspect. He's no Dylan to begin with, but the music is hardly "distinguished composition." |
Why not, and also what would make the other finalists or any of the previous winners of the previous 5 years meet that criteria?
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YoungPunk
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- #43
- Posted: 04/22/2018 01:38
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@Tap
They think what they think. That's why I don't pay much attention to this type of stuff.
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Fischman
RockMonster, JazzMeister, Bluesboy,ClassicalMaster
Gender: Male
Location: Land of Enchantment
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- #44
- Posted: 04/22/2018 01:43
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| YoungPunk wrote: | @Fischman
I don't know about jazz but I find modern classical a load of steaming hot garbage |
Yeah, there's plenty of that out there. But there's still good stuff as well.
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #45
- Posted: 04/22/2018 01:43
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| YoungPunk wrote: | @AfterHours
I don't even trust you anymore! |
My life's work -- just like that -- right down the toilet! 
_________________
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YoungPunk
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- #46
- Posted: 04/22/2018 01:45
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Explain why Mahler's 9th is so great! It's weird!
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #47
- Posted: 04/22/2018 02:22
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| Tha1ChiefRocka wrote: | Isn't it telling, at least a small amount, that the newest album (out of the ones you mentioned) was made in 1979? (I know that you have artists rated highly after 1979, but just for argument's sake  ) |
Yes, you caught yourself (several highly rated post-1979)
| Tha1ChiefRocka wrote: | | Hip hop has, for the most part, done a better job in the last 30 years of reflecting the progresses, issues, and changes in society better than any other form of music. As classical, jazz, folk, and rock may have done in the past. |
Hip Hop could be said to be analogous to Rock/other music as the documentary is to the rest of cinema. So in a sense that Hip Hop is usually more of a "document" of its times (particularly the social issues surrounding its mostly black artists' lives/situations), this may be true. But, as in documentaries vs fiction cinema, Hip Hop rarely equals the imagination and artistry and emotional/conceptual expressive conviction of the greatest Classical/Jazz/Rock albums. There are exceptions that do (or that approach) it but even something as amazing as Nation of Millions falls rather short of, say, Pop Group's Y or MC5s Kick Out the Jams.
| Tha1ChiefRocka wrote: | | I think both of these works with the theme of suicide both reflect their time period and the artist who made them very well. They would be all time greats for me. |
I don't intend to put down your opinion, which is perfectly fine and I am a big fan of Ready to Die (I too consider it among the best Hip Hop albums) ...but as you probably know (or had guessed), I find the Shostakovich much more emotionally devastating and expressively masterful, right down to the haunted core of his psychology. Notorious BIG is one of my favorite rappers ever (and was on the "right" expressive track that so many rappers miss -- the desperation, anger and hardened pain in his vocal delivery is among the best ever) but he will never touch the naked, open wounded emotional devastation of Shostakovich's masterpieces. And doesn't even remotely approach Shostakovich compositionally.
An example of a contemporary work (to Ready to Die) that deals with the heavy despair of suicide that I would consider an all time masterpiece would be Down Colorful Hill by Red House Painters. Many works of history have captured deep states of depression but perhaps none so hauntingly sterile and depressing (right on the brink of being past the point of no return). It deals with the subject with such majesty that it is almost ecstacy, but also so mired in depression that it is almost nothing, almost death. Each slow-motion rhythm and articulation of music/voice is a gentle push into the ether of death, that indefinable state of being right as the person is dying but are still conscious and there with you, edging towards the other side.
For a more actively self-destructive/angered/violent/desperate version of such states/tendencies (more comparable to Ready to Die's intent), I don't think it is even close to as overpowering and impinging as something like Nine Inch Nail's Downward Spiral.
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YoungPunk
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- #48
- Posted: 04/22/2018 02:47
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I dunno AfterHours, I'm gonna have to stick with my statements, Mahler's 9th over all Wagner for no reason, sounds like you're pushing something...
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Hayden
Location: CDMX
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- #49
- Posted: 04/22/2018 02:56
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| Fischman wrote: |
However, the criteria for a Pulitzer in music is broader than the criteria for a Nobel in Literature.
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Which only makes the selection smaller. Whereas the Nobel in Literature has a nearly infinite amount of international options (past few years we've had a songwriter, a journalist, a poet, a short story writer, novelists, etc... all from different countries), Pulitzers are quite narrow (especially in music), and I've found they really throw them at anything they can scrounge up on an annual basis. They typically only award Americans, and frankly shouldn't be considered much when looked at on a global scale. You mix that in with a whole bunch of oldies trying to be hip, you're going to get a strange result.
Kendrick won the Superbowl. Dylan won the World Cup. Different sport, different scale. #KungFuKennyNobel2042
However, all that aside, I think I agree with your point. If we're basing DAMN. solely on "distinguished musical composition", it's not exactly a marvel. There's some good instrumentals on it, sure, but without lyrics the album wouldn't really hold ground. TPAB's instrumentals were far more 'instrumental'.
I may be wrong, but I'm going to assume nobody on the council has ever dabbled in making hip-hop, and possibly don't even know what really goes into it. I think the Pulitzer brought in some of the lyrical content this time around. They must have. Which is unorthodox, sure, but I think we can all recognize that. They simply came to realize the music they've been awarding doesn't really matter. It's not important. It's not interesting. It's mainly obscure academic pieces that don't really reflect the times. DAMN is far more important than anything previously awarded, and I think that's the direction they want to move in.
Last edited by Hayden on 04/22/2018 04:23; edited 3 times in total
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mickilennial
The Most Trusted Name in News
Gender: Female
Age: 35
Location: Detroit
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- #50
- Posted: 04/22/2018 04:04
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i cant believe im saying this but i agree with after hours
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