Kendrick Lamar wins the Pulitzer Prize in Music for DAMN. - Music

YoungPunk

AfterHours wrote:

To anyone interested (though a bit off topic from the OP) Laughing

There was a typo before with "swath" instead of "wrath" (in bold now). Might make a little difference in relaying what I meant but probably no big deal...

"I will say this teaser though: every musical phrase of Beethoven's 9th is (1) relaying multiple emotional/conceptual statements simultaneously yet fully developed in and of itself (each is way more ambiguous and layered than is obvious; for instance, the heroic progression in developments of the first movement's 2nd and mid sections are not just heroically progressing in increased pace and suspense, but are fused by both downcast tones, angry/violent wrath/outcry, and a lonely, weeping funeral at its heart inside the main orchestral frame ... the whole symphony is never what it only seems on the surface, but an "endless" shift, metamorphosis, desperation, culmination and salvage of being); (2) every musical phrase is a prismatic (inverted, transposed, close variant) mirror of and to its other parts simultaneously in an impossible-to-believe infinity and cohesion of emotion and concept (if, in considering this work, you think there is no way with such seemingly incongruous parts, sudden developmental changes/leaps, differing movements and expansion of musical territory, that this could've been accomplished by anyone, let alone a deaf person who hadn't heard music for years, then you are right -- it was impossible). As an example the capping, lunging, upward, tense thrust of vocals and orchestra that ends the symphony is not just a fitting climactic ascension but, instrumentally and vocally, actually fuses all the symphony's movements into one build up then swift, momentous, fell swoop, shockingly culminating all in the most economical and violently joyful way possible. The whole symphony has been growing up to this, in an incredible network of compositional correlation. The whole symphony is built on its parts, and each of its parts are the whole symphony. The actual musical experience of this and its cognitive realization is too incredible for words, an unrelenting compositional and expressive epiphany. It is overwhelmingly miraculous. I (no joke) nearly choked up in thinking about it while writing this."

I guess its clear we could care less about Kendrick lol Smile

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

YoungPunk wrote:

Anyhow I'm not really all that surprised you evaded Mahler's ninth, there's very little positive I can say about it, and I suspect that's true for most people, Beethoven's ninth is way better, but you wouldn't know what it was about if not for the words. Other than that you would need an outside (dare I say artificial) book written by some scholar that didn't write the music and usually has nothing to offer lol.

No -- providing you with insight is a complete waste of my fucking time, that's why I've "evaded" telling you about Mahler's 9th.

And no -- the insights I provided about Beethoven's 9th have nothing to do with the words. You have no clue what I'm talking about.

You're very covert/two-faced in (a) your pretense of wanting insights, then (b) the nullifaction and manipulative intent of your replies. Your attempts to twist knowledge/insight that I provide for you into some non-sequitur comprehension and lessen what I've said is fucking ridiculous. Don't ask me again, I'm not interested.
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AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Fischman wrote:

This is somewhat reminiscent of the brouhaha surrounding Dylan having won a Nobel Prize for Literature, but with one key difference.

Like Lamar, many old heads and traditionalists scoffed at Dylan earning such an honor.

Like Lamar, Dylan's music is noting to get excited about. Dylan's fame rests on his words more so than the music to which it is set.

And therein lies the difference. Personally, I find Dylan unlistenable, but I understand the attention paid to his poetry. So him winning a Nobel specifically for Literature does seem within the realm of the reasonable.

However, the criteria for a Pulitzer in music is broader than the criteria for a Nobel in Literature. The Nobel focuses only on the language while the Pulitzer is for "distinguished musical composition," which implies the music is just as important as the words.

So when we start thinking about "distinguished musical composition," then Lamar's selection becomes even more suspect. He's no Dylan to begin with, but the music is hardly "distinguished composition." I'm with @AfterHours in thinking there's many (maybe not hundreds, but plenty) of jazz/classical (and I would add progressive rock) releases annually that far exceed Lamar in any given year in the arena of musical composition. Lamar may be taking hip-hop further than the very basic standards of the past, but for it to approach the technical accomplishments of the greats currently operating in these other genres, he's got a loooooong way to go.

Agreed with the gist of what you're saying of Lamar, though as youre probably aware, I am a big champion and fan of Dylan, one of my favorite artists. I think he is a great vocalist -- not technically/traditionally -- but in his raw/unfiltered emotional honesty. He had an incalculable effect upon the art of the vocalist in Rock music, in lessening the necessity to be technically proficient but instead "being" him/herself with much increased attention on what was emotionally true as an expression as opposed to ensuring the technique was in place ahead of this (more important) factor. He basically invented the Rock artist as independant -- therefore independant Rock music was borne. He was the first Rock artist to truly follow his own path and care nothing about the charts or what the public was clamoring for. As a composer he was quite substantial, in that he dilated and extended the format and intellectualized it, having an incalculable effect upon Experimental/Progressive/Art Rock and the entire future of the Rock musician as visionary artist.
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Hayden

Location: CDMX

sethmadsen wrote:

Hayden wrote:

Not that Lamar winning is a problem of mine, but it would've been cool to see Arca win. Least it would've fit the bill... ish...

EDIT: Nvm, not eligible. I pick Jlin's Black Origami.

Cool.

Also why is Arca not eligible?

Winners have to be American (or the work, no matter the field, has to be composed/made in America).

Like I said. It's limited.

No Pulitzer for you, Mozart.

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

sethmadsen wrote:

For all the haters, what should have won last year instead?

The unintentional-roll-your-eyes-comedy in my dismissal of DAMN as the winner is that I dont have a replacement for it as I have barely listened to anything for the year Laughing

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souplipton

Gender: Male
Location: Toronto

AfterHours wrote:

No -- providing you with insight is a complete waste of my fucking time, that's why I've "evaded" telling you about Mahler's 9th.

You're very covert/two-faced in (a) your pretense of wanting insights, then (b) the nullifaction and manipulative intent of your replies. Your attempts to twist knowledge/insight that I provide for you into some non-sequitur comprehension and lessen what I've said is fucking ridiculous. Don't ask me again, I'm not interested.

Honestly, don't engage with him. He's clearly uninteresting in trying to listen to what you're saying and is, dare I say it, probably just trolling you. I think your assessment that it is "a complete waste of my fucking time" is about as spot on as any assessment you've done (and I know you have done some extremely thorough assessments).

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

boyd94 wrote:

Tap wrote:

Like even here a statement like "But here it's largely in the lyrics, as per the nature of the genre" which isn't even coming from a place of dismissing the genre at all, I think misses out on the musicality of rap.

For sure, there are some examples of impressive musicality in the genre. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the music serves the words in hip-hop, indeed for all of Raekwon's lyrical talent and expression he is not the same without RZA, whose style is so distinctive and influential as to be a genre unto itself.

I'm finding it difficult to express what I mean here. Might come back to it later.

AfterHours wrote:

I will revisit DAMN just to be sure. Seeing as someone who understands my criteria/selections is recommending it fairly strongly. I have had many albums suddenly upgrade in rating upon a revisit, so I am far from a stranger to changing my mind.

If you're giving TPAB 7/10 I would honestly put DAMN at 6/10.

Re: TPAB @ 7/10 / DAMN @ 6/10 ... This is plausible. I revisited it last night and it may have some promise in it enough for 6/10 (my rating some weeks ago was 4/10). I'll say more about the work if I decide it's (more than marginally) better than I initially thought.
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AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

souplipton wrote:

Honestly, don't engage with him. He's clearly uninteresting in trying to listen to what you're saying and is, dare I say it, probably just trolling you. I think your assessment that it is "a complete waste of my fucking time" is about as spot on as any assessment you've done (and I know you have done some extremely thorough assessments).

Thank you for the acknowledgement, and agreed on your advice in a general sense (as necessary).
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

AfterHours wrote:

The unintentional-roll-your-eyes-comedy in my dismissal of DAMN as the winner is that I dont have a replacement for it as I have barely listened to anything for the year Laughing

no worries. I was just curious. I'm not committed really to either side of the story/calling anyone out. I mean I think DAMN does have some great social commentary on race, religion/beliefs, and many other heavy hitting topics (it's not empty garbage), but to say it's the absolute best of 2017, have no clue, and as many have said his previous releases are better.

Musically I do find DAMN. his most cohesive record (something that for my taste is really important), but still agree with others that it is not his greatest work.

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

sethmadsen wrote:

no worries. I was just curious. I'm not committed really to either side of the story/calling anyone out. I mean I think DAMN does have some great social commentary on race, religion/beliefs, and many other heavy hitting topics (it's not empty garbage), but to say it's the absolute best of 2017, have no clue, and as many have said his previous releases are better.

Musically I do find DAMN. his most cohesive record (something that for my taste is really important), but still agree with others that it is not his greatest work.

Makes sense man, thank you Smile

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