"Please don't confront me with my failures, I had not forgotten them"

- Nico
 
What counts as an 'album' nowadays?

Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Best Ever Albums -> Music
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message

Tha1ChiefRocka
I'm A Cowboy On My Own Trip



Location: Kansas
United States

#21 | Posted: 01/04/2019 01:54 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Why would time have anything to do with something being a "statement"? That's like saying the Mona Lisa is a bad painting because it's on a small panel.
Back to top
Visit poster's website View user's profile Send private message

sidneyfranklyn




Age: 20
United Kingdom

#22 | Posted: 01/12/2019 09:17 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Hayden wrote:
By personal beliefs (if I were to release something), I'd call it an EP if it was under 24 minutes (which comes from a 33 1/3 speed 10"'s max length), and an LP at anything over.

I know you also say "I'm not one to be fussy about it either" and I'm guessing it was with that sentiment that you assembled your 'Hors d'oevres' chart (one I am a massive fan of btw) since you seem to contradict this rule on that chart for the sake of including things that an artist has ostensibly designated an EP (e.g. Gay? and Slow Riot). For full disclosure I've changed my album criteria that I started this post with by lowering my album threshold to 25 minutes, and I wonder what EPs might creep into your overall chart if you were more stringent ... would Slow Riot be inducted for example since it's about the same length as your no.5 pick Pink Moon?
Back to top
Visit poster's website View user's profile Send private message

Hayden




Location: CDMX
Canada

#23 | Posted: 01/12/2019 16:31 | Post subject: Reply with quote
sidneyfranklyn wrote:
I know you also say "I'm not one to be fussy about it either" and I'm guessing it was with that sentiment that you assembled your 'Hors d'oevres' chart (one I am a massive fan of btw) since you seem to contradict this rule on that chart for the sake of including things that an artist has ostensibly designated an EP (e.g. Gay? and Slow Riot). For full disclosure I've changed my album criteria that I started this post with by lowering my album threshold to 25 minutes, and I wonder what EPs might creep into your overall chart if you were more stringent ... would Slow Riot be inducted for example since it's about the same length as your no.5 pick Pink Moon?


First, thanks Smile I need to overhaul that chart soon... it's been awhile (definitely a handful of releases in the 80-100 range that probably shouldn't be there).

And my statement was based on what I would do if I put out a release. Over 24, album, under, EP. By no means am I going to run up to Pusha T and say "IT WAS AN EP!". Artists can do what they want. Truly, I don't find there's many EPs out there that clock in at over 30min, so it's not a big deal. Yet even ff somebody releases a 31-minute EP, I'm not going to fret Laughing I just hope the music's good.

Being said, if you have a release clocking in a 65 minutes, it's not an EP anymore Embarassed That's pushing it.

If 2018 is anything to look back on for trends, I wouldn't be surprised with albums getting both longer and shorter. Upcoming, I feel we're going to have a lot of 20-30min albums, and a whole bunch of 90+ albums.
_________________
Mango
Back to top
Visit poster's website View user's profile Send private message

sethmadsen
Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis


Gender: Male
Age: 34
Location: Ground Control
United States

#24 | Posted: 01/12/2019 17:07 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Seems 1% strange we are equating antiquated terms for vinyl releases with digital releases. I mean I don't really care, just a thought. Some standards just stay standards. Also I feel like this mostly applies to "music industry" pop music and not really jazz or classical or whatever music doesn't fit the "norm" (oversimplifying it). Sure things have adapted over time, but you would never say, hey that single from Mozart is banging, if it's a 3 movement sonata.

Anyway: over simplified "music industry" music that I'd expect to carry on with outliers of course

1-3 tracks: Single
3-5 songs: EP
8-11 tracks: Standard Album
11-15 tracks: 90s CD (hehe)
Over 15/18 tracks: Double album

Of course there's outliers... like a 2 track double album or an EP with 120 three second tracks... but those very likely aren't "music industry" music.

I guess what I'm saying is the question of what is an album anymore really probably is addressing a growing number of "cool kids" "breaking boundaries" because they want to feel like they are doing something different but the standards have really been set and all this other stuff I find to be outliers and nothing special... I mean if 90% of artists were consistently breaking the norm, then we can really have this discussion in seriousness, which likely would mean the album as a format is dead, but I think we've established it's not and these are outliers (run on sentence anyone?)...

It'd be like asking what's a symphony in the romantic period because they were breaking norms... it's still a symphony... just because it has 5 movements instead of the traditional 4 or 2 30 minute movements or whatever...

I suppose it's exciting to think that maybe we are on the cusp of something totally revolutionary... but who knows.
_________________
Discogs
Baroque Reviews
RYM
Spotify Playlists
last.fm
Back to top
Visit poster's website View user's profile Send private message

Graeme2



Gender: Male
Location: The Upside Down
United Kingdom

#25 | Posted: 01/12/2019 18:34 | Post subject: Re: What counts as an 'album' nowadays? Reply with quote
sidneyfranklyn wrote:
I wanted to start a conversation thread on what makes a release 'full-length' or just an EP now that we are in an era where often release is limited to digital, and if this affects the way you review a release.

I understand back in the age of vinyl this wasn't even a sensible question, but with Kanye's spate of 20-minute releases this year, which are all being received by music critics as 'albums' and not EPs (Anthony Fantano has released a separate list for his favourite EPs of the year, with the number 1 spot going to Aphex Twin's Collapse, which is 10 minutes longer than any of Kanye's 'albums') I thought I'd raise the question of where we draw the line between album and EP, and indeed if this matters at all.

I remember reading a comment on the internet re. Kids See Ghosts that said "it's amazing that the only difference between an album and an EP now is what the artist says it is". Certainly artistic intent is important. However, I've found separating ranking and reviews for albums along these lines completely non-sensical: Daytona is an 'album' that clocks in at 21:08; am I to review it differently to the Signals, Calls & Marches EP which is only 20 seconds shorter? The same questions stands for the Slow Riot For New Zero Kanada EP and Pink Moon. What about the Gay? EP by 12 Rods, which is 38:04; should I review it with EPs even if it's far longer than certain 'albums'? To differentiate the two by whatever the artist themselves classifies it as seems completely arbitrary and unhelpful along these lines.

Another solution would be to just review everything together, but I feel silly trying to compare a 10 minute EP by someone to a 2 hour double album, any concurrent credentials for deciding which I like better don't cover both.

Personally, my solution is to designate everything below 30-minutes as a 'Short Release', and rank it separately (my Greatest Short Release chart is coming soon), I know this is no less arbitrary but I feel at least giving these things of similar lengths a better chance of competing with each other.

Thoughts BEA?



Other than pink moon, you can add seasons in the abyss and the Ramones debut to your list. They all feel like full albums like any other to me. I also think New Zero Kanada feels like an album too. I'm not fussed either way what people want to call stuff. I've got the godspeed ep on my overall. I don't think I have any other ep on any chart. Not many anyways.
Back to top
Visit poster's website View user's profile Send private message

raadfactoryxny



Gender: Male
Age: 18
Location: Copenhagen
Denmark

#26 | Posted: 03/12/2019 09:48 | Post subject: Reply with quote
My definition

Single:

1-2 tracks (no more no less)
+
<15 mins


EP:

3-8 tracks (no more no less)
+
15-39mins


Album:

9 tracks
/
>40 mins

Which means all of these are EPs at the end of the day:
Skeleton Tree - Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds
A Saucerful of Secrets - Pink Floyd
All of Kanye's 2018 releases
The King of Limbs - Radiohead
On The Beach - Neil Young
etc.

A lot of albums are close to being EP's like
Laughing Stock - Talk Talk
Led Zeppelin's first 5 albums
Wish You Were Here - Pink Floyd
_________________
"Check my style, che-che-check it out" :
https://www.besteveralbums.com/thechart...amp;page=1
Back to top
Visit poster's website View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

Rockdrigo



Gender: Male
Age: 24
Location: Cochabamba, Bolivia
Bolivia

#27 | Posted: 03/13/2019 15:09 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Kool Keith Sweat wrote:
This is one of the most boxed-in, naive opinions I've read in some time. Congrats

Would you mind explaining why, or you'll keep passive-aggressively attacking me for having a different opinion?

Tha1ChiefRocka wrote:
Why would time have anything to do with something being a "statement"? That's like saying the Mona Lisa is a bad painting because it's on a small panel.

If your canvas is small enough to not allow you to develop the idea you set for expressing, you have effectively found a painting that is "too small". I don't find Mona Lisa too small, as neither I do Pink Moon, even if both are just on the verge of me considering them to be so.

For you two, I'll explain how I see it. An album is a set of musical ideas explored to the max of their ambition, and we can agree that artists should give the most of themselves with every work. At one point, if your work space got too small, I don't see how you could pull up a deep enough exploration of the themes you set up for, and I happen to think that limit is the difference between an EP and an album. I don't want to listen to a limited work when I could be listening to a fully thought out one.
_________________
Latest up to date charts:
2019 /thechart.php?c=52405
2018 /thechart.php?c=44571
1997 /thechart.php?c=23124
1978 /thechart.php?c=22663
2009 /thechart.php?c=25818
Back to top
Visit poster's website View user's profile Send private message

Rockdrigo



Gender: Male
Age: 24
Location: Cochabamba, Bolivia
Bolivia

#28 | Posted: 03/13/2019 15:20 | Post subject: Reply with quote
raadfactoryxny wrote:

EP:

3-8 tracks (no more no less)
+
15-39mins

Don't you think 39 minutes is too long for an EP? Last time I checked, the standard album was 40-45 minutes long, which implies you think almost half of what people consider to be an album not an album.
_________________
Latest up to date charts:
2019 /thechart.php?c=52405
2018 /thechart.php?c=44571
1997 /thechart.php?c=23124
1978 /thechart.php?c=22663
2009 /thechart.php?c=25818
Back to top
Visit poster's website View user's profile Send private message

Kool Keith Sweat
skronkist



Location: Tejas
United States

#29 | Posted: 03/13/2019 23:28 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Rockdrigo wrote:
Would you mind explaining why, or you'll keep passive-aggressively attacking me for having a different opinion?


It was just aggressive.

And your right, it is your opinion, which you can have, it's just a shit opinion. You're critiquing art based on extra-artistic qualities, which doesn't speak to the quality of the art, but your biases and preconceptions of what music (or, in your case, the rock album as a format) should be. A quadruple album can leave a lot to be desired when exploring the possibilities of its theme or whatever, ten minutes can be an impactful statement, and vice versa. I wouldn't know until I listened to it because I don't have the shit opinion that time is correlated to quality.
Back to top
Visit poster's website View user's profile Send private message

baystateoftheart
Neil Young as a butternut squash



Age: 24
Location: Massachusetts
United States

#30 | Posted: 03/14/2019 00:12 | Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm with Chief and KKS here philosophically.

As to the suggestion of BEA having an EP category similar to compilations, I think that's a great idea, but only if it's applied based on clear and specific presentation/marketing of a release as an EP, and not based on its length.

I like the 5 track / 20 minute rule as a starting point, but I think there should be an addendum. If a shorter release is clearly and specifically presented/marketed as an EP or as an LP, AND is comprised of more than 50% newly-released recordings that do not appear on any studio LP, it should be permitted in the database. That would add richness to the BEA database without clogging it up with redundant releases.
_________________
Add me on RYM

Currently listening to: Women's History Month Listening Project
Back to top
Visit poster's website View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4
   Forum Index -> Best Ever Albums -> Music


 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Similar Topics
Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. Post counts and joined dates removed WindowAbove Suggestions 1 01/09/2015 18:42 View latest post
albummaster
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. What book are you reading nowadays? Facetious Lounge 154 09/28/2012 19:19 View latest post
Guest

 
 

Powered by phpBB©



Copyright © 2005-2019 BestEverAlbums.com. All rights reserved.    Terms of Use  |   Privacy Policy  |   Contact Us  |   Advertising  |   RSS Feeds  |   Site Map