Noise Vs Melody

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theblueboy





  • #1
  • Posted: 04/05/2019 21:41
  • Post subject: Noise Vs Melody
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What is the noisiest album in your top 100 and which is your most melodic (by your own definition/ judgement)?

Also, I'm wondering about...

Are noise and melody opposites?

If an album is genuinely very noisy can it still be great music? If yes, what is the value in noise?

What value do you place on melody- is melody the most important factor in enjoyment of music? (For me yes, but I'm curious to see what other people think).

I'll try to answer my own questions once I've slept on it.
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Jimmy Dread
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  • #2
  • Posted: 04/05/2019 22:16
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It is permissible to use Loveless as the answer to all these questions?
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theblueboy





  • #3
  • Posted: 04/05/2019 22:26
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Jimmy Dread wrote:
It is permissible to use Loveless as the answer to all these questions?


Totally. And it's one of the albums I was thinking of when I posted. I'm not sure if I genuinely consider it noisy though as it's such a refined and easy on the ear kind of noise to me. But yeah, maybe the best music has noise and melody both acting together or fighting against each other in some way. Idk really, just curious.
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craola
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  • #4
  • Posted: 04/05/2019 23:18
  • Post subject: Re: Noise Vs Melody
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Michael1981 wrote:
What is the noisiest album in your top 100 and which is your most melodic (by your own definition/ judgement)?

that by your own definition/judgement bit makes this tricky. i suppose sonic youth's sister is probably the noisiest album in my top 100 by most definitions, though my dad thinks autechre and aphex twin are just "noise". melody-driven.... i think that stina nordenstam's and she closed her eyes is pretty dependent on her melodies, but i don't know that this is the right answer. i have too-rye-aye in my top 100, which in a way focuses on simple melodies, though the melodies are rather crude, and the rhythm, primitive as it may be, is a vital component to most of the songs on the record. that's all a very wordy way to say "sister"(?) and "and she closed her eyes"(?) are my noise and melody respectively.

Michael1981 wrote:
Are noise and melody opposites?

the entire concept of "opposites" is a strange one. you could argue that silence is the opposite of melody and even more-so the opposite of noise. certainly melody and noise cannot be opposite each other when they sit across the aisle from silence.

Michael1981 wrote:
If an album is genuinely very noisy can it still be great music? If yes, what is the value in noise?

yes. well, i suppose that depends on what you find to have intrinsic value. i know a few people who play "noise" to fall asleep to, which is certainly something of value. we need sleep to live healthy lives. and there are all sorts of noise. white noise, static, distortion, cacophony, drone, etc. - all have their place, but they've all got different functions. i love some good cacophony as a sputter into chaos out of something tranquil. or into tranquil from the abyss. that sort of thing. sometimes, you'll be listening to free jazz, and the saxophones, trumpets, etc. are all blaring out of control, and you swear they've all lost total sense of the rhythm, key, time signature, etc., and then BOOM they're back in all at the same time in perfect harmony, rhythm, syncopation - it's absolutely wild. but for a moment, it's nothing but noise, or so it sounds to the audience.

Michael1981 wrote:
What value do you place on melody- is melody the most important factor in enjoyment of music? (For me yes, but I'm curious to see what other people think).

not at all. if melody was all that mattered to me, i would listen to clarinet solo performances all day long and nothing else. i think melody is a character of music, same as any other character. in itself, it's kind of dull, but it can be exploited to create something truly magical, and at times, it can take center stage... at times, it can be the most important thing in the world, but i still see it as a part of a team.

Michael1981 wrote:
I'll try to answer my own questions once I've slept on it.

you monster.
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Fischman
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  • #5
  • Posted: 04/05/2019 23:56
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Melodious
The Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed (#6)

Noisy
Black Sabbath- Sabbath Bloody Sabbath (#57)
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TimeLion





  • #6
  • Posted: 04/06/2019 05:43
  • Post subject: Re: Noise Vs Melody
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craola wrote:

the entire concept of "opposites" is a strange one. you could argue that silence is the opposite of melody and even more-so the opposite of noise. certainly melody and noise cannot be opposite each other when they sit across the aisle from silence.


craola wrote:

if melody was all that mattered to me, i would listen to clarinet solo performances all day long and nothing else.


Your ideas are intriguing and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
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Tap
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  • #7
  • Posted: 04/06/2019 06:05
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noise is the opposite of tone, not melody. a little bit of noise is necessary to make timbres more interesting than just sine waves. too much noise though and it gets hard to detect a pitch and get a read on any melodies. so with that in mind the noisiest album on my 100 is also the quietest, this 6 hour Jurg Frey one where it alternates between absolute silence and recordings of a park. Though some of the recordings are filtered so you get a sense of a pitch. And then I guess the most melodic one would be this Hans Otte one.
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theblueboy





  • #8
  • Posted: 04/06/2019 10:22
  • Post subject: Re: Noise Vs Melody
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craola wrote:
you'll be listening to free jazz, and the saxophones, trumpets, etc. are all blaring out of control, and you swear they've all lost total sense of the rhythm, key, time signature, etc., and then BOOM they're back in all at the same time in perfect harmony, rhythm, syncopation - it's absolutely wild. but for a moment, it's nothing but noise, or so it sounds to the audience


Oh yeah, that sort of thing is pretty cool. I get it more from experimental rock like Sister Ray (Velvets) and Blue Line Swinger (Yo La Tengo). That dissapearing into chaos and coming back to form sort of thing.

craola wrote:
you monster.

Laughing Pretty much.

Interesting responses and album choices so far-much food for thought and good albums for me to check out too...

Anyway, now I look at my chart I can see how tough it is to pick the most melodic album-most of my chart is really melodic. I'm going to have to go with Randy Newman-Good Ole Boys. It has lush arrangements and a very strong emphasis on melody. I have at #11 so that sort of supports a theory that the more melodic I find an album the more I will like it. But it's not at #1 though so my theory maybe isn't all that great either.

Not many noisy things on my chart as I do generally go for clean and easy on the ear. I'd say Bitches Brew is the nosiest. It's not particularly distorted or hard on the ear. It's just more chaotic and less constructed than anything else on my chart, which makes it a bit noisy but it must be a kind of noise I like.

Are noise and melody opposites? I guess not total opposites- and noise pop music seems obviously the two together. But can see them as kind of opposites if noise is defined as sounds that are disturbing, chaotic and unpredictable and melody as melody as a collection of sounds that has a pleasing kind of form or coherence. Though I'm not sure there is ever going to be totally solid definition of noise or melody-its one of those subjective things I keep hearing about...

Can noisy albums be great music? I think noisy things can be a great listen but for me rarely my favourite albums. I see them as kind of living in opposition to the melodic things I really like. But I do feel like I sometimes need a noisy punky explosion to offset an overdose of too much melody in my normal music diet. So I listen to something noisier as a kind of palet cleanser. I like Half Japanese-Half Gentleman/ Not Beasts for this, which is kind of funny in comparison to what I normally listen to as its maybe the noisiest and least respectful album towards melody of all time. I cant get through the whole album in one sitting though.

Is melody the most important thing I think it must be for me as the music I listen to is generally highly melodic. Though I don't think there is some sort of 1:1 correspondence between the most melodic and my absolute favourites so other factors must come into play. I'm wondering if the most melodic music I've ever heard is Cosi Fan Tuti by Mozart-I don't listen to this all that often though.
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theblueboy





  • #9
  • Posted: 04/06/2019 10:28
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Tap wrote:
noise is the opposite of tone, not melody. a little bit of noise is necessary to make timbres more interesting than just sine waves. too much noise though and it gets hard to detect a pitch and get a read on any melodies. so with that in mind the noisiest album on my 100 is also the quietest, this 6 hour Jurg Frey one where it alternates between absolute silence and recordings of a park. Though some of the recordings are filtered so you get a sense of a pitch. And then I guess the most melodic one would be this Hans Otte one.


That's a good definition of noise. I guess it fits with the idea of noise=distortion. I hadn't considered that some degree of distortion/ noise is preferable to a totally clean sound but that sounds true. The piercing tones you get from those sine wave type machines and not musical at all so I think this must be right!
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RoundTheBend
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  • #10
  • Posted: 04/06/2019 19:47
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Tap wrote:
noise is the opposite of tone, not melody. a little bit of noise is necessary to make timbres more interesting than just sine waves. too much noise though and it gets hard to detect a pitch and get a read on any melodies. so with that in mind the noisiest album on my 100 is also the quietest, this 6 hour Jurg Frey one where it alternates between absolute silence and recordings of a park. Though some of the recordings are filtered so you get a sense of a pitch. And then I guess the most melodic one would be this Hans Otte one.


I figured Tap would nail this.

As for me, I'm a tonal music junky... so I think the closest thing on my charts to have noise are artists who temporarily visit that world, but barely. Sigor Ros, Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana, heck even Beatles... but no none of my albums are noise albums.

Oh hey, what was that album you shared once where it was like CD skipping noises or something orchestrated together? That was an interesting project for sure, even if I could never purposely listen to it for the purpose of heartfelt enjoyment.
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