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PurpleHazel




United States

#11 | Posted: 06/14/2019 08:13 | Post subject: Reply with quote
badseed wrote:
I've been bitten by the OOP bug too often so I can't help but start now in case some BS goes down and suddenly a basic film (hello Apocalypto) disappears from sight and goes for stupid numbers online.

Being bitten by the OOP bug is what got me to seriously start collecting DVDs in the first place. In 2010, almost every Paramount back catalog movie went OOP except for the Godfather, Star Trek and Audrey Hepburn movies. Chinatown, Rosemary's Baby, Sunset Blvd., Death Wish, even Zodiac -- all OOP. I was like, oh shit, if I ever want to have an excellent film library, I better start snapping things up, and went on from there. This guy who has a site called Michael's Movie Mayhem used to post lists of what what DVDs the studios were deleting on a DVD forum and it was invaluable for buying up DVDs before the secondhand prices started skyrocketing. Not long after, Warner did a big purge of DVDs, though in this case it wasn't big names, but a bunch of more obscure titles.

At the beginning of 2013, Paramount cut a distribution deal with WB and most of the Paramount titles, except for the most obscure ones, came back in print -- by this time Criterion had released some of them on Blu.

Quote:
the first two Evil Deads are on 4k but do those movies really call for crisp visuals? Then again I feel the same for the original Halloween but I put that movie on a higher level so of course I got it.

I actually kind of enjoy it when higher-definition formats expose flaws and details in movies that weren't meant to be seen. The original Evil Dead on Blu-ray is definitely a good example of that. Even Halloween had a higher budget than Evil Dead, so I could see buying that and not the others. But I would get a kick out of seeing Evil Dead in 4K!

Quote:
Another note, again this is very vague because I don't remember specifics but Kino released Hannibal of all movies as their first 4k and I think due to low sales they've decided not to make anymore. Criterion has a larger more dedicated fanbase than Kino but it's still a risk they may not plan to take anytime soon. I mean you're looking at 30 bucks minimum for one of those. They would probably want to experiment with that one before going all in. Hopefully they pick a better title than Hannibal for their first release.

I researched it, but I couldn't find any mention online that Kino's Hannibal 4K didn't sell well. A month ago Kino said they were "definitely planning more" 4K releases on FB. A week ago they announced they're doing The Man With No Name Trilogy.

Of course Kino and Criterion don't have the same business model, and Kino in particular has drastically changed in the last 5 years. It's absolutely true that nobody really knows whether Criterion will enter the UHD market. They were pretty slow to embrace Blu-ray (the end of 2008). I personally think it'll happen eventually as the core of their business is still physical media. As I'm sure you've noticed, they keep getting bigger and bigger Hollywood titles -- Dr. Strangelove, Barry Lyndon, Blue Velvet, Silence of the Lambs (they put SotL out on DVD very early in the DVD era, but lost the rights when the DVD market heated up). I could see them dipping their toe into UHD with a title as popular as Silence of the Lambs or more so. On CriterionForum there's been idle speculation that they may land Citizen Kane, though I don't think WB's quite ready to cough that up yet.

When Criterion decided to go Blu-ray, they put out a slate of 10 titles in one month. But with UHD, I could see them just doing a couple of big titles over a few months and then take stock.

On one hand, Hannibal seemed like a weird choice for Kino's first UHD, but I think I get their thinking on it. They don't have much access to big-budget Hollywood movies from the last 20 years, and even though Hannibal is, IMO, a very bad movie, it's relatively recent (and recent sells) and it's got big above-the-title talent involved. Criterion would've never gone that route, but Criterion has access to better films and doesn't usually put out trashy movies, while Kino's been relying on them quite a bit in the last 5 years.
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badseed



Gender: Male
Age: 30
Location: FL
United States

#12 | Posted: 06/14/2019 20:36 | Post subject: Reply with quote
PurpleHazel wrote:
Being bitten by the OOP bug is what got me to seriously start collecting DVDs in the first place. In 2010, almost every Paramount back catalog movie went OOP except for the Godfather, Star Trek and Audrey Hepburn movies. Chinatown, Rosemary's Baby, Sunset Blvd., Death Wish, even Zodiac -- all OOP. I was like, oh shit, if I ever want to have an excellent film library, I better start snapping things up, and went on from there. This guy who has a site called Michael's Movie Mayhem used to post lists of what what DVDs the studios were deleting on a DVD forum and it was invaluable for buying up DVDs before the secondhand prices started skyrocketing. Not long after, Warner did a big purge of DVDs, though in this case it wasn't big names, but a bunch of more obscure titles.

At the beginning of 2013, Paramount cut a distribution deal with WB and most of the Paramount titles, except for the most obscure ones, came back in print -- by this time Criterion had released some of them on Blu.

Quote:
the first two Evil Deads are on 4k but do those movies really call for crisp visuals? Then again I feel the same for the original Halloween but I put that movie on a higher level so of course I got it.

I actually kind of enjoy it when higher-definition formats expose flaws and details in movies that weren't meant to be seen. The original Evil Dead on Blu-ray is definitely a good example of that. Even Halloween had a higher budget than Evil Dead, so I could see buying that and not the others. But I would get a kick out of seeing Evil Dead in 4K!

Quote:
Another note, again this is very vague because I don't remember specifics but Kino released Hannibal of all movies as their first 4k and I think due to low sales they've decided not to make anymore. Criterion has a larger more dedicated fanbase than Kino but it's still a risk they may not plan to take anytime soon. I mean you're looking at 30 bucks minimum for one of those. They would probably want to experiment with that one before going all in. Hopefully they pick a better title than Hannibal for their first release.

I researched it, but I couldn't find any mention online that Kino's Hannibal 4K didn't sell well. A month ago Kino said they were "definitely planning more" 4K releases on FB. A week ago they announced they're doing The Man With No Name Trilogy.

Of course Kino and Criterion don't have the same business model, and Kino in particular has drastically changed in the last 5 years. It's absolutely true that nobody really knows whether Criterion will enter the UHD market. They were pretty slow to embrace Blu-ray (the end of 2008). I personally think it'll happen eventually as the core of their business is still physical media. As I'm sure you've noticed, they keep getting bigger and bigger Hollywood titles -- Dr. Strangelove, Barry Lyndon, Blue Velvet, Silence of the Lambs (they put SotL out on DVD very early in the DVD era, but lost the rights when the DVD market heated up). I could see them dipping their toe into UHD with a title as popular as Silence of the Lambs or more so. On CriterionForum there's been idle speculation that they may land Citizen Kane, though I don't think WB's quite ready to cough that up yet.

When Criterion decided to go Blu-ray, they put out a slate of 10 titles in one month. But with UHD, I could see them just doing a couple of big titles over a few months and then take stock.

On one hand, Hannibal seemed like a weird choice for Kino's first UHD, but I think I get their thinking on it. They don't have much access to big-budget Hollywood movies from the last 20 years, and even though Hannibal is, IMO, a very bad movie, it's relatively recent (and recent sells) and it's got big above-the-title talent involved. Criterion would've never gone that route, but Criterion has access to better films and doesn't usually put out trashy movies, while Kino's been relying on them quite a bit in the last 5 years.


Thanks for all that... The more I think about it the more I do want Evil Dead in 4k haha.

Regarding Kino, I had to look it up, but this is what I found on facebook. Posted by Dawn of the Discs on May 3:

Quote:
According to Cliff Macmillan from Scream Factory (on Brainwaves Horror and Paranormal Podcast) on the question of whether SF would ever get into the 4K UHD territory, Cliff remarked that Kino Lorber was “so disappointed with the numbers on their “Hannibal” 4K release that they have actually cancelled their next planned 4K release” and that it would cost too much for SF to get into that world at the moment. I thought that was interesting and unfortunate (if true) about the Hannibal situation.

(I guess this sentiment was shared on Blu-ray.com forums by the KL insider, but I must have missed it)

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badseed



Gender: Male
Age: 30
Location: FL
United States

#13 | Posted: 06/14/2019 20:44 | Post subject: Reply with quote
PurpleHazel wrote:
When Amazon has a mainstream studio release for sale these days, they're usually price-matching Best Buy, Walmart or Target. In this case they're obviously price-matching Best Buy. Don't think it's a reflection of sales for Spider-Verse in particular -- in this case it may be tied to Spider-Man: Far From Home opening in a couple of weeks. Also Best Buy seems to have a good relationship with Sony -- BBy used to have those Sony Savestation displays.

You saying they have the DVD priced at both 9.99 and 17.99?


Shit my bad... Bluray is 9.99, 4K is 14.99, DVD is 17.99. So it's weird that the DVD didn't drop in price and now it cost more than the other two.
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PurpleHazel




United States

#14 | Posted: 06/14/2019 23:44 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for finding that post quoting the Scream Factory guy. Either way, it sounds like Kino's going to release The Man With No Name Trilogy on UHD in 2020. From Bluray.com on May 4th:

Kino Lorber Insider wrote:
This whole project will take much longer and will be very expensive, but we still plan to release them on 4K, most likely early next year.

Shout Factory's actually already put out a few UHDs, but they're lowbrow documentaries like "The Mysteries of China" haha. But I believe Scream Factory when they say they're not planning get into UHD for now. I'd heard that already. Maybe Criterion isn't either.

badseed wrote:
So it's weird that the DVD didn't drop in price and now it cost more than the other two.

It's counter-intuitive, but Best Buy just didn't put the DVD on sale. It happens -- sometimes companies only want to promote newer formats.

EBay has a $3 off $3.01-or-more one item coupon code right now: PROMO3 Good for picking up a single movie (or album) if the price's already reasonable. Supposedly good till the 17th, but I'd use it today because sometimes there's a ceiling on how many times it can be used.
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badseed



Gender: Male
Age: 30
Location: FL
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#15 | Posted: 06/15/2019 07:21 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Kino didn't ever release For a Few Dollars More on Blu did they? After buying their other three Leone releases I was waiting patiently for so long I forgot I was waiting. There was no official word they had rights last I heard (though apparently your sources are better than mine) but that was months ago.
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PurpleHazel




United States

#16 | Posted: 06/15/2019 08:02 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Just checked -- came out late March.

I imagine they secured the rights to all three at the same time. But the Trilogy are the biggest films they've ever landed. Kino usually just puts out the transfers given to them, but I get the impression they really took their time with these, though their edition of TGTBATU's still gotten some flak.
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badseed



Gender: Male
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#17 | Posted: 06/15/2019 18:27 | Post subject: Reply with quote
PurpleHazel wrote:
Just checked -- came out late March.

I imagine they secured the rights to all three at the same time. But the Trilogy are the biggest films they've ever landed. Kino usually just puts out the transfers given to them, but I get the impression they really took their time with these, though their edition of TGTBATU's still gotten some flak.


Damn so it did come out. Torn whether to order it now or wait for the 4k set. Regarding the transfer (assuming that's what you meant got flak) of GBU, I don't know. I've never really been a transfer queen especially when it comes to old movies but it looks like 4k is gonna change that for me.
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badseed



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#18 | Posted: 06/15/2019 20:21 | Post subject: Reply with quote
I gradually wanted Evil Dead more and more that I picked it up today. Can't find a copy of part 2 in town. Also grabbed Forrest Gump today. Always enjoyed the visual effects on this film. 4K might point out some flaws but we'll see.
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PurpleHazel




United States

#19 | Posted: 06/16/2019 09:30 | Post subject: Reply with quote
badseed wrote:
Damn so it did come out. Torn whether to order it now or wait for the 4k set. Regarding the transfer (assuming that's what you meant got flak) of GBU, I don't know. I've never really been a transfer queen especially when it comes to old movies but it looks like 4k is gonna change that for me.

I'm not a transfer queen either; just a lot of trivial info I've picked up over the years. As you probably know, the 2014 MGM 4K-mastered version of GBU was controversial because it was very yellow -- the Italian restoration company claimed that was how the film originally looked. Kino gave the people what they wanted and swung the color palette back the other way. There have been at least a little criticism of the PQ of all three BD releases, but there have also been other issues, including the English audio track for the extended (Italian) cut, and versions missing a few minutes. The Kino edition's the first to offer the U.S. cut in HD, so that's pretty major. I couldn't find any major complaints about the Kino edition (other than the poor PQ of the extras), but I'd read something on CriterionForum about a few minutes missing from one of the cuts -- presumably the extended cut -- however I haven't been able to find the post. Well, Kino will now get a second bite at the apple and hopefully they correct whatever was wrong with the BD, if anything significant was actually wrong. I suspect that due to the condition of the original negative and the various cuts and maybe that English audio track there will never be a version that satisfies every home video reviewer and cinephile.
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badseed



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#20 | Posted: 06/16/2019 19:15 | Post subject: Reply with quote
PurpleHazel wrote:
I'm not a transfer queen either; just a lot of trivial info I've picked up over the years. As you probably know, the 2014 MGM 4K-mastered version of GBU was controversial because it was very yellow -- the Italian restoration company claimed that was how the film originally looked. Kino gave the people what they wanted and swung the color palette back the other way. There have been at least a little criticism of the PQ of all three BD releases, but there have also been other issues, including the English audio track for the extended (Italian) cut, and versions missing a few minutes. The Kino edition's the first to offer the U.S. cut in HD, so that's pretty major. I couldn't find any major complaints about the Kino edition (other than the poor PQ of the extras), but I'd read something on CriterionForum about a few minutes missing from one of the cuts -- presumably the extended cut -- however I haven't been able to find the post. Well, Kino will now get a second bite at the apple and hopefully they correct whatever was wrong with the BD, if anything significant was actually wrong. I suspect that due to the condition of the original negative and the various cuts and maybe that English audio track there will never be a version that satisfies every home video reviewer and cinephile.


The Good, the Bad and the Ugly was my favorite film of all time back when they released the extended version on DVD for the first time. The extra scenes are okay but not essential, although there is one I particularly enjoy (the extended chat before running into the Union soldiers) but I always thought the dubbing was hella awkward as they got Eastwood and Wallach to dub it 40 years late so you can tell, especially in Wallach's voice, how old he is. Not sure if that's the issue you're talking about with the extended version but yeah, weird.
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