Album of the day (#3104): Rubber Soul by The Beatles

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DommeDamian
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  • #41
  • Posted: 06/19/2020 18:07
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baystateoftheart wrote:
Not sure how a song about violence against women written and sung by a domestic abuse perpetrator can fall into the joke song category.


1. Physical abuse (like hitting a woman) and murder are not the same. I don't see the song as being about misogynistic violence, as much as being about actual murder - with a subtle message about jealousy being poisoning to your natural common sense.

2. At the end of the song/album, Lennon sings "na-na-na" which indicates (for me) that it's clearly not a serious statement of his. It's written as a joke.

3. Lennon sings that he will kill her if she cheats on him, which is ironic considering that HE was the one who, not only cheated but, left his wife there and then later. Also something I cannot take too seriously (although it's clearly not in Lennon's favor).

4. This song is the closer of Rubber Soul. Rubber Soul! The album that features some of Lennon's most hard-hitting love songs like In My Life and Michelle, completely contradicting Run For Your Life. Pick a side Laughing
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baystateoftheart
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  • #42
  • Posted: 06/19/2020 21:52
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DommeDamian wrote:
1. Physical abuse (like hitting a woman) and murder are not the same. I don't see the song as being about misogynistic violence, as much as being about actual murder - with a subtle message about jealousy being poisoning to your natural common sense.

2. At the end of the song/album, Lennon sings "na-na-na" which indicates (for me) that it's clearly not a serious statement of his. It's written as a joke.

3. Lennon sings that he will kill her if she cheats on him, which is ironic considering that HE was the one who, not only cheated but, left his wife there and then later. Also something I cannot take too seriously (although it's clearly not in Lennon's favor).

4. This song is the closer of Rubber Soul. Rubber Soul! The album that features some of Lennon's most hard-hitting love songs like In My Life and Michelle, completely contradicting Run For Your Life. Pick a side Laughing


Not sure why this is being resurrected after a year... Brick wall

1. You think a man hitting his female partner is misogynistic but killing her is not?!? Brick wall What's threatened in the song is fatal misogynistic domestic violence. Not to mention that the murder is premised on an assertion of his ownership of her.
2. I've never heard that argument before. Any negation of the rest of the song from this common and normally meaningless non-verbal lyrical filler is as clear as mud. This in no way suggest the song is a joke.
3. Double standards exist relative to cheating, and they were much more intense then than they are now. Psychology classes taught that it was normal and acceptable for men to cheat but not for women.
4. You think because someone wrote good love songs they couldn't have written a song about domestic violence?? And most albums are not cohesive emotionally anyway.
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Spyglass
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  • #43
  • Posted: 06/19/2020 22:05
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World O' Shit alert.
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Gowi
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  • #44
  • Posted: 06/19/2020 22:32
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what the fuck
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theblueboy



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  • #45
  • Posted: 06/20/2020 11:43
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Yeah- not sure why this was suddenly resurrected ( Maybe DommeDamian can explain Smile ) I do think it's an interesting subject though so I'm actually intrigued to revisit this.

I agree with DommeDamian that the intention of "Run for your life" seems to be comedic-if you read the lyrics on the page they come across as an exaggeration of the jealous lover- a sort of caricature. And obviously the musical tone of the song is quite lighthearted, which does suggest Lennon was intending a jokey mood rather than something darkly confessional. An artist's intentions and how it is received are potentially different things but I personally don't find it offensive. I enjoy the track as a strange, dark but oddly playful end to the album. I respect the opinion of those who do consider it offensive though.

Interestingly, I just read that Lennon lifted the line "I'd rather see you dead, little girl" from an Elvis tune- so there is a history of this theme in pop music too. We can also recognise it in the milder "You can't do do that" (on A Hard day's Night) and later with a more mature reflection on the celebrated Lennon solo track "Jealous Guy".
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DommeDamian
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  • #46
  • Posted: 06/20/2020 12:49
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baystateoftheart wrote:

Not sure why this is being resurrected after a year... Brick wall

1. You think a man hitting his female partner is misogynistic but killing her is not?!? Brick wall What's threatened in the song is fatal misogynistic domestic violence. Not to mention that the murder is premised on an assertion of his ownership of her.
2. I've never heard that argument before. Any negation of the rest of the song from this common and normally meaningless non-verbal lyrical filler is as clear as mud. This in no way suggest the song is a joke.
3. Double standards exist relative to cheating, and they were much more intense then than they are now. Psychology classes taught that it was normal and acceptable for men to cheat but not for women.
4. You think because someone wrote good love songs they couldn't have written a song about domestic violence?? And most albums are not cohesive emotionally anyway.


Just to clarify, I did not find it amusing that John Lennon wants to kill his girlfriend. I figured that the song was written as a joke about male jealousy taken to the maximum. That was the reason I see the song as a joke, but it's not like I'm coughing of laughter listening to the song. And of course (like any of you guys) I don't condone any of this behaviour in real life. In the same way I didn't think Norwegian Wood did in courage arson, because someone didn't want to sleep with you.
I'm not trynna disrespect the fact you don't see this song as a 'joke' (I do respect it, totally). But you said you didn't see how it can be viewed as such, which I tried (and mostly failed) to explain.

People sometimes be having the same arguments and debates for ages and decades. Anyways, I listened to the entire masterpiece yesterday, and thought of this old discussion. And I still thank you for replying, even though it's been a year as you said.

1. My statement was blown a bit out of proportion. Never said it wasn't misogynistic, as much as saying there is a clear difference between hitting a significant other because of being a female, and taking her life because she cheats on him. If we take the lyrics literally, then it is clearly misogynistic and offensive. However I don't think the lyrics are to be taken literally. The ownership-thing was definitely not well-though out from my side though.
2. Agree to disagree! Well now you've heard the argument (thanks for subconsciously calling me an innovative debater Laughing jk). The "na-na-na" reminds me of kindergarten teasing like "naaaa-nana-na-naa!". Making the song more uneasy to be taken literally as Lennon having malicious intent in real life to murder someone. Not to mention the song, musically, has an up-beat vibe that is kind of fun (don't get it twisted) instead of a super-serious sinister tone.
3.Point taken, though my point was that the track is hypocritical coming from John's side.
4.No, because they obviously can. But since they write love songs, they can make an ironic song as well. And there's a difference between un-cohesively emotional albums, and Rubber Soul.

We can definitely agree that the song, lyrically, aged like milk. If it was performed by George, it would probably be a different story. I read somewhere that John dismissed the song - yet it's one of George's favorite Beatles-songs ever. .....But I reckon that he doesn't condone of violence against either men or women.

"I used to be cruel to my woman. I couldn't express myself and I hit. I fought men and I hit women. That is why I am always on about peace, y'see. It is the most violent people who got for love and peace. I am a violent man who has learned not to be violent and regrets his violence. I will have to be a lot older before I can face in public, how I treated women as a youngster" - John Lennon. So he himself agreed with your points.

Here's also an exaggeration to point 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zYQX-ermCQ

.
Lastly, I'm like to hear your answer; what would be a better way to end Rubber Soul? It's not that I don't think that exists, I'm simply curious - and they released a lot of great material in that period y'know.

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To theblueboy: that was way better worded than I could ever do self.
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baystateoftheart
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  • #47
  • Posted: 06/20/2020 20:11
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DommeDamian wrote:
Lastly, I'm like to hear your answer; what would be a better way to end Rubber Soul?


Almost any other way. You could delete the track and reshuffle the order of the others. In My Life would be a fitting closer. If another track is needed for Rubber Soul, add either side of the single they released concurrently.
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RockyRaccoon
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  • #48
  • Posted: 06/20/2020 21:14
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kinda funny there's people defending Run For Your Life when Lennon himself said he never really liked the song and regretted writing it. I doubt Lennon would defend the song
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DriftingOrpheus



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  • #49
  • Posted: 06/20/2020 22:38
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Even though Run for Your Life stands on the shakiest of moral foundations, I don't this takes diminishes the face that the song is pretty decent sonically. While no doubt disgusting in sentiment, does this mean we can't enjoy it? Can we not enjoy Chuck Berry after his controversy and Michael Jackson after all the craziness he's delved into?
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theblueboy



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  • #50
  • Posted: 06/21/2020 08:32
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RockyRaccoon wrote:
kinda funny there's people defending Run For Your Life when Lennon himself said he never really liked the song and regretted writing it. I doubt Lennon would defend the song


I wasn't defending the song -just saying I personally find it reasonably likeable/acceptable. Lennon is quoted as saying he didn't like the song as it was a throwaway. I'm not aware of him outright rejecting the song on moral grounds.
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