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Album of the day (#3123): Graceland by Paul Simon

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911Turbo



Gender: Male
Location: Toronto
Canada

#11 | Posted: 07/08/2019 03:22 | Post subject: Reply with quote
This album is either you love him or you don't, no in-betweens.
For me, the album was just okay.
On the other hand, my wife loved it.
Go figure.
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Skinny
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#12 | Posted: 07/08/2019 07:01 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Influential people breaking the boycott lent legitimacy to the oppressors and undermined the protest movement. I actually love parts of this album, but I stand by my opinion: fuck Paul Simon. Also, "it happened before you were born so you aren't entitled to an opinion on it" is bad logic. Also, "African musicians continued to work with him" is the "I've got a black friend" of this particular case.

Look, there are worse people out there with worse motives than Paul Simon, which is why his decision was so disappointing - he should have known better, and has never acknowledged his mistake. So fuck him.
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Cyrax





#13 | Posted: 07/08/2019 17:35 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Gotta check it out sometime after some of the positive comments here, didn't really catch me before...
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911Turbo



Gender: Male
Location: Toronto
Canada

#14 | Posted: 07/08/2019 20:34 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Skinny wrote:
Influential people breaking the boycott lent legitimacy to the oppressors and undermined the protest movement. I actually love parts of this album, but I stand by my opinion: fuck Paul Simon. Also, "it happened before you were born so you aren't entitled to an opinion on it" is bad logic. Also, "African musicians continued to work with him" is the "I've got a black friend" of this particular case.

Look, there are worse people out there with worse motives than Paul Simon, which is why his decision was so disappointing - he should have known better, and has never acknowledged his mistake. So fuck him.


Pardon my ignorance.
What did paul simon do to make you so irate?
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Tha1ChiefRocka
Staring Into The Middle-Distance



Location: Kansas
United States

#15 | Posted: 07/08/2019 21:04 | Post subject: Reply with quote
911Turbo wrote:
Skinny wrote:
Influential people breaking the boycott lent legitimacy to the oppressors and undermined the protest movement. I actually love parts of this album, but I stand by my opinion: fuck Paul Simon. Also, "it happened before you were born so you aren't entitled to an opinion on it" is bad logic. Also, "African musicians continued to work with him" is the "I've got a black friend" of this particular case.

Look, there are worse people out there with worse motives than Paul Simon, which is why his decision was so disappointing - he should have known better, and has never acknowledged his mistake. So fuck him.


Pardon my ignorance.
What did paul simon do to make you so irate?


He thinks that because he read the wikipedia article about the albun that he knows everything about the controversey surrounding it. Rolling Eyes
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Skinny
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#16 | Posted: 07/08/2019 21:29 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Tha1ChiefRocka wrote:
911Turbo wrote:
Skinny wrote:
Influential people breaking the boycott lent legitimacy to the oppressors and undermined the protest movement. I actually love parts of this album, but I stand by my opinion: fuck Paul Simon. Also, "it happened before you were born so you aren't entitled to an opinion on it" is bad logic. Also, "African musicians continued to work with him" is the "I've got a black friend" of this particular case.

Look, there are worse people out there with worse motives than Paul Simon, which is why his decision was so disappointing - he should have known better, and has never acknowledged his mistake. So fuck him.


Pardon my ignorance.
What did paul simon do to make you so irate?


He thinks that because he read the wikipedia article about the albun that he knows everything about the controversey surrounding it. Rolling Eyes


Both my parents were active politically on the left throughout the 1980s and helped to organise large anti-Apartheid rallies and events, but I'm not entirely sure why I'm attempting to justify myself in the face of snide comments such as this one. Rolling Eyes

Think what you like, guys. 'You Can Call Me Al' and 'Diamonds on the Soles of Her Shoes' are all-time jams. Paul Simon threatened to undermine the anti-Apartheid movement in order to record an album. Both these things can be true.
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Tha1ChiefRocka
Staring Into The Middle-Distance



Location: Kansas
United States

#17 | Posted: 07/08/2019 21:44 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Both my parents were active politically on the left throughout the 1980s


Ah, now that explains it. No hard feelings Very Happy
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Norman Bates



Gender: Male
Age: 46
Location: Paris, France
France

#18 | Posted: 07/08/2019 22:35 | Post subject: Reply with quote
This album is a blatant rip-off of Vampire Weekend's latest.

What I dislike the most about it is not so much the idea of it breaking the boycott - as despicable as this may be already - as the fact that "African music" is here used as a form of "cleansing", "back-to-real-values", "primordial people know better" alibi that feels so paternal it really makes me wince in dismay every time I hear a song off this record - and practically anything by Simon really now, which is such a shame because he's got such good tunes, and that's includin 'You Can Call Me Al'.
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RoundTheBend
Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis



Location: Ground Control
United States

#19 | Posted: 07/09/2019 03:37 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Laughing - I agree Vampire Weekend and this album have a bit in common (well I haven't heard their newest, but their first album seems to jive a lot with the same energy, etc.)

I mean if you can say Paul Simon single-handedly made the Apartheid last even one day longer, then, yeah, fuck Paul Simon.

But I think these things can be true: (and now I'm a racist)
1) While Simon didn't abide by the UN resolution, I feel like he wasn't breaking the spirit of the law, and it seems like the South African black musician’s union felt the same way.

2) While you can call me al is the weakest track (mostly for those damn repetitive horns, the bass is killer) the album is fantastic and no it's not a whoahiewhoah feel good hit of the summer beckoning back primordial shit with shit on top. The K-MART SPECIAL. But I can see how it could be misunderstood as such.



I think with this quote it's hard for me to call Paul Simon an ass. I feel like there's the letter of the law and the spirit of the law, and I really can't find a lot of evidence he broke the spirit of the law. The law in my opinion should have been written to deter people to support white supporters of Apartheid, not black Africans, but I'm not an expert.

I also think "I have that one single black friend" type racism comment doesn't apply to Paul Simon, but I suppose I'm not an expert at calling people racist either. All I know is he toured and recorded with an African guitarist for 30 years and when that dude died, he called music quits. I'm sure that's not the only reason, but that was indeed the trigger.

Anyway, what a racist douche:
Quote:
Simon went to great lengths to ensure that his South African musical colleagues were treated as equals throughout the sessions. He offered the band almost $200 dollars an hour – triple the scale wages for top players in New York City – at a time when the going rate in Johannesburg was around $15 a day. Moreover, he promised to share writing credits for any musical or lyrical input. The deal was fair enough that the justifiably suspicious South African black musician’s union passed a resolution to formally invite Simon to record in their country. When sessions were shifted to New York City and London, the maestro made sure his musicians flew first class, stayed at the top rate hotels, and dined in five-star restaurants.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi...w-105220/#!

For context, $200 is $467.32 or £159.64 in 2018 money.
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Skinny
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#20 | Posted: 07/09/2019 05:39 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Seth, nobody is suggesting either you or Paul Simon is racist. The "I've got a black friend" analogy refers to the misguided logic which suggests a person's offences towards a community or common cause can be written off because they have the support of one person, or a small number of people, within that community. Ergo, Hugh Masakela arguing in support of Paul Simon doesn't make his decision any less naïve, patronising, or pigheaded, just as Elton John performing with Eminem doesn't absolve the latter of his overt, targeted homophobia.

As I've said previously, I think Paul Simon was well-intentioned. But I think it takes a special kind of arrogance to believe that your good intentions outweigh carefully planned, internationally agreed protocol aimed at damaging an oppressive regime. You're right in saying that there's no evidence that Paul Simon's work in South Africa did anything to extend Apartheid, though the opposite is also true - such is the case with hypotheticals. But Paul Simon knowingly threatened to undermine the protest movement in order to record an album, because he thought he knew better than thousands, if not millions, of academics, performers, politicians, and activists. Just because some good came of it for some people doesn't make it the right decision.
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