Top 10+ Music, Movies, and Visual Art of the Week (2023) - Music Diaries

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

AfterHours wrote:

Nice try

Very unlikely unless there is something particularly impressive about it being missed all these years (not impossible, never say never, but...).

If its a 7 then all of a sudden a domino effect of ratings changes of much better, relatively comparable works would throw things out of whack like... Odyseey & Oracle and Sgt Pepper 8.5s, Skylarking 9/10 and all sorts of wacky imbalances

Not to be too "challenging" and I don't want to invite a storm of conflict about the Beatles, but you (anyone) are always welcome to make a case for Revolver. As in you are always free to show me key points or merits about it that would warrant equal or better rating than the 7s listed (such as aspects of its expressiveness musically/vocally that are substantial). I have yet to hear why the album is such a masterpiece or even among The Beatles best albums (7, 7.5?) and am more than welcome for this to be pointed out to me if someone wants to.

The simple truth (to me, and I think it's obvious actually) is that most of the album's songs are quite under-developed and lack expressive dimension. Overall the work is very inconsistent with some of their weakest/most trivial songs since their earliest works (Here There Everywhere, Good Day Sunshine, Dr Robert, I Want to Tell You), to some that are "okay" (Got To Get You into My Life) next to some solid ones (She Said She Said, For No One, Love You To, Yellow Submarine, And Your Bird Can Sing, Tax Man, Eleanor Rigby) to some of their better ones (I'm Only Sleeping, Tomorrow Never Knows). One issue in saying this constitutes a masterpiece (or even a 7 or 7.5) is that even the "best" ones were a far cry from the radical, jaw-dropping and far more emotionally expressive works/experiments being mounted at the time and it's hard to make a case that The Beatles stand out as particularly impressive when taking the whole period and their contemporaries into account (such as VU and Nico, The Doors, Freak Out, Blonde On Blonde ... free/avant/Third Stream jazz: Coltrane, Coleman, Mingus, Sun Ra, etc... ... or very soon after, such as: Piper at the Gates of Dawn, Parable of Arable Land, White Light/White Heat ... ).

Almost all of Revolver's songs feel like passing novelties as opposed to fully fledged and executed ideas/experiences. Revolver's "under-development" (and in my opinion a bit of a trivialization of the experiments they were trying to assimilate) is pretty easy to see when comparing it to a much more developed work of their own (compositionally, musically, of "psychedelia" and "Pop Art") like Sgt Pepper the following year (when they and Martin started to really come in to their own with these ideas) and which exhibits a much more developed grounding, conviction and expressive depth of these attributes/subgenres ... or, for instance, a more substantial, potent, consistent and fully fledged work like Odessey & Oracle...
_________________
Best Classical
Best Films
Best Paintings

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Facetious wrote:

Okay but Revolver 7/10 when

Hours later in our continuing saga... Very Happy

While Revolver may never get above 5.5 or maybe 6, I can say that I just revisited Sgt Pepper and it was begging an upgrade to 7.3-7.4 or so. This has happened at times before -- usually like once every 2-3 years ... but then I just go read Scaruffi's page and hate it again <--- JUST KIDDING Laughing

I'll try that again: this has happened several times before -- usually like once every 2-3 years -- but then I revisit it a couple more times and it wears off and/or I revisit some psych-art-pop albums not too far above it (like Skylarking, Bellybutton...) and realize that it's not quite there and usually settle back in to about 7.1. But I dunno, the pull was stronger this time. Maybe it's legit or maybe it's because I'm mid lots of psych revisits right now and I'm extra (but temporarily) enamored, thus overrating it. I'll give it some time as I go through a bit more 60s stuff and get back to it again soon to see if it still holds.

So, maybe there's hope after all haha Wink

_________________
Best Classical
Best Films
Best Paintings

Facetious

Gender: Male
Age: 24
Location: Somewhere you've never been

AfterHours wrote:

Not to be too "challenging" and I don't want to invite a storm of conflict about the Beatles, but you (anyone) are always welcome to make a case for Revolver. As in you are always free to show me key points or merits about it that would warrant equal or better rating than the 7s listed (as in: aspects of its expressiveness musically/vocally that are substantial)

The simple truth (to me, and I think it's obvious actually) is that most of the album's songs are quite under-developed and lack expressive dimension. Overall the work is very inconsistent with some of their weakest/most trivial songs since their earliest works (Here There Everywhere, Good Day Sunshine, Dr Robert, I Want to Tell You), to some that are "okay" (Got To Get You into My Life) next to some solid ones (She Said She Said, For No One, Love You To, Yellow Submarine, And Your Bird Can Sing, Tax Man, Eleanor Rigby) to some of their better ones (I'm Only Sleeping, Tomorrow Never Knows). One issue in saying this constitutes a masterpiece (or even a 7 or 7.5) is that even the "best" ones were a far cry from the radical, jaw-dropping and far more emotionally expressive works/experiments being mounted at the time and it's hard to make a case that The Beatles stand out as particularly impressive when taking the whole period and their contemporaries into account (such as VU and Nico, The Doors, Freak Out, Blonde On Blonde ... free/avant/Third Stream jazz: Coltrane, Coleman, Mingus, Sun Ra, etc... ... or very soon after, such as: Piper at the Gates of Dawn, Parable of Arable Land, White Light/White Heat ... ).

Almost all of Revolver's songs feel like passing novelties as opposed to fully fledged and executed ideas/experiences. Revolver's "under-development" (and in my opinion a bit of a trivialization of the experiments they were trying to assimilate) is pretty easy to see when comparing it to a much more developed work of their own (compositionally, musically, of "psychedelia" and "Pop Art") like Sgt Pepper the following year (when they and Martin started to really come in to their own with these ideas) and which exhibits/expresses a much more developed grounding, conviction and expressive depth of these attributes ... or, for instance, a more substantial and fully fledged work like Odessey & Oracle...

I remember starting to write a comment on Listology once making a case for Revolver when we started this argument but getting too lazy to finish it. Should get back to it.
But briefly, I feel what you interpret as a song being "underdeveloped" is mostly just economical songwriting which integrates ideas almost effortlessly. Most of the songs in the "solid" category have radical ideas that may appear almost normal since they seem to fit the pop format so seamlessly (particularly true for She Said She Said, I'm Only Sleeping, Love You To). I also take an issue with Here There and Everywhere and I Want to Tell You being in the weak category so will expand on that too.

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Facetious wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

Not to be too "challenging" and I don't want to invite a storm of conflict about the Beatles, but you (anyone) are always welcome to make a case for Revolver. As in you are always free to show me key points or merits about it that would warrant equal or better rating than the 7s listed (as in: aspects of its expressiveness musically/vocally that are substantial)

The simple truth (to me, and I think it's obvious actually) is that most of the album's songs are quite under-developed and lack expressive dimension. Overall the work is very inconsistent with some of their weakest/most trivial songs since their earliest works (Here There Everywhere, Good Day Sunshine, Dr Robert, I Want to Tell You), to some that are "okay" (Got To Get You into My Life) next to some solid ones (She Said She Said, For No One, Love You To, Yellow Submarine, And Your Bird Can Sing, Tax Man, Eleanor Rigby) to some of their better ones (I'm Only Sleeping, Tomorrow Never Knows). One issue in saying this constitutes a masterpiece (or even a 7 or 7.5) is that even the "best" ones were a far cry from the radical, jaw-dropping and far more emotionally expressive works/experiments being mounted at the time and it's hard to make a case that The Beatles stand out as particularly impressive when taking the whole period and their contemporaries into account (such as VU and Nico, The Doors, Freak Out, Blonde On Blonde ... free/avant/Third Stream jazz: Coltrane, Coleman, Mingus, Sun Ra, etc... ... or very soon after, such as: Piper at the Gates of Dawn, Parable of Arable Land, White Light/White Heat ... ).

Almost all of Revolver's songs feel like passing novelties as opposed to fully fledged and executed ideas/experiences. Revolver's "under-development" (and in my opinion a bit of a trivialization of the experiments they were trying to assimilate) is pretty easy to see when comparing it to a much more developed work of their own (compositionally, musically, of "psychedelia" and "Pop Art") like Sgt Pepper the following year (when they and Martin started to really come in to their own with these ideas) and which exhibits/expresses a much more developed grounding, conviction and expressive depth of these attributes ... or, for instance, a more substantial and fully fledged work like Odessey & Oracle...

I remember starting to write a comment on Listology once making a case for Revolver when we started this argument but getting too lazy to finish it. Should get back to it.
But briefly, I feel what you interpret as a song being "underdeveloped" is mostly just economical songwriting which integrates ideas almost effortlessly. Most of the songs in the "solid" category have radical ideas that may appear almost normal since they seem to fit the pop format so seamlessly (particularly true for She Said She Said, I'm Only Sleeping, Love You To). I also take an issue with Here There and Everywhere and I Want to Tell You being in the weak category so will expand on that too.

I am looking forward to what you have to say, but for now Ill just say that I doubt extra "economical" songwriting holds water here if the (attempted) purpose is an experience of psych-pop-art and such limited or economical means end up mitigating that (by and large), Revolver being mainly a slew of inferior examples next to their contemporaries plus their own better examples (MMT, Sgt Pepper further developing this ... then Pink Floyd's Piper being a massive leap from there, while also carving its own more progressive territory, for instance...). But yes, I am curious to see if you have a case (imo I mean ... you are always welcome to yours of course, regardless if I agree/disagree).
_________________
Best Classical
Best Films
Best Paintings

Facetious

Gender: Male
Age: 24
Location: Somewhere you've never been

In other news, the XXXTENTACION album Scaruffi rated 7/10 is probably the worst album rated 7 or above by him. It might even be the worst if you extend that to 6.5.

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Facetious wrote:

In other news, the XXXTENTACION album Scaruffi rated 7/10 is probably the worst album rated 7 or above by him. It might even be the worst if you extend that to 6.5.

Interesting. Must not be on Aqua's level then Laughing

Haven't heard XXXTENTCION yet but would you rate it 5 or maybe less? When I last listened to it at least, Have a Marijuana (Scaruffi 8/10; Me 5/10) took the title.
_________________
Best Classical
Best Films
Best Paintings

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Fwiw, revisited The Beatles and...

Sgt Pepper 7.1/10 (possibly 7.2-7.3/10)
Abbey Road 6.8-6.9/10
Magical Mystery Tour 6.4/10
The Beatles 6.0/10
Revolver 5.3/10
Rubber Soul 5.2/10
A Hard Days Night 5.0/10
Yellow Submarine 4.8/10
Let It Be 4-4.5/10
Meet The Beatles 4/10
Help! 3.2/10
Please Please Me 3/10
With The Beatles 3/10
Beatles For Sale 3/10

Note that after revisiting Help I could not bring myself to waste 2 hours of my life revisiting Meet the Beatles, Please Please Me, With The Beatles and Beatles For Sale so those ones arent true updates and I am assuming their ratings all hold from whenever I last had the endurance Laughing

_________________
Best Classical
Best Films
Best Paintings

Facetious

Gender: Male
Age: 24
Location: Somewhere you've never been

AfterHours wrote:

Interesting. Must not be on Aqua's level then Laughing

Haven't heard XXXTENTCION yet but would you rate it 5 or maybe less? When I last listened to it at least, Have a Marijuana (Scaruffi 8/10; Me 5/10) took the title.

I unironically like Aqua, Aquarius is probably at least 6.5 for me. The XXXTENTACION album would be 6- for me but I give out ratings in the range of 5.5 to 6- to stuff I wouldn't ever listen to in full again but that still has a few redeeming aspects.
I don't remember Have a Marijuana well enough to comment on that but yeah it's probably among the worst 8/10s.

Facetious

Gender: Male
Age: 24
Location: Somewhere you've never been

AfterHours wrote:

Fwiw, revisited The Beatles and...

Sgt Pepper 7.1/10 (possibly 7.2-7.3/10)
Abbey Road 6.8-6.9/10
Magical Mystery Tour 6.4/10
The Beatles 6.0/10
Revolver 5.3/10
Rubber Soul 5.2/10
A Hard Days Night 5.0/10
Yellow Submarine 4.8/10
Let It Be 4-4.5/10
Meet The Beatles 4/10
Help! 3.2/10
Please Please Me 3/10
With The Beatles 3/10
Beatles For Sale 3/10

Note that after revisiting Help I could not bring myself to waste 2 hours of my life revisiting Meet the Beatles, Please Please Me, With The Beatles and Beatles For Sale so those ones arent true updates and I am assuming their ratings all hold from whenever I last had the endurance Laughing

What's with the hate for Help?? It sounds a lot like Rubber Soul, I can't imagine it being below a 5 (6.5 for me). Then again, Rubber Soul is a 7 for me. Looks like I have far more to address in my post than just Revolver then.

AfterHours

Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)

Facetious wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

Fwiw, revisited The Beatles and...

Sgt Pepper 7.1/10 (possibly 7.2-7.3/10)
Abbey Road 6.8-6.9/10
Magical Mystery Tour 6.4/10
The Beatles 6.0/10
Revolver 5.3/10
Rubber Soul 5.2/10
A Hard Days Night 5.0/10
Yellow Submarine 4.8/10
Let It Be 4-4.5/10
Meet The Beatles 4/10
Help! 3.2/10
Please Please Me 3/10
With The Beatles 3/10
Beatles For Sale 3/10

Note that after revisiting Help I could not bring myself to waste 2 hours of my life revisiting Meet the Beatles, Please Please Me, With The Beatles and Beatles For Sale so those ones arent true updates and I am assuming their ratings all hold from whenever I last had the endurance Laughing

What's with the hate for Help?? It sounds a lot like Rubber Soul, I can't imagine it being below a 5 (6.5 for me). Then again, Rubber Soul is a 7 for me. Looks like I have far more to address in my post than just Revolver then.

Simply, Help is possibly the most inconsistent album of their career in that it has classics -- some of their better early career stuff -- (such as Help, Youve Got To Hide Your Love Away, Ticket To Ride, Dizzy Miss Lizzy, espec Yesterday) but the rest is all or at least mostly indifferent/uninspired/extra trivial; the band sounds like theyre totally mailing it in and assuming its success because of their height of popularity... Rubber Soul is a pretty big leap from it imo, in its own way a near perfect collection of songs that show a sort of mastery over their early career work (if rather closed/simple minded, not particularly ambitious ... a far cry from the explosive seasons of Dylan: BIABH & H61Rev or the Rolling Stones: songs off Out of our Heads and culminating with 65/66 Aftermath: Paint it Black, Going Home etc)

Looking forward to what you have to say. If youre convinced to take it beyond Revolver, maybe take it one album at a time though Smile

_________________
Best Classical
Best Films
Best Paintings