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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #1011
- Posted: 09/11/2022 18:43
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@ Facetious
FWIW: This will probably seem pretty random... I am only mentioning this now because I was just thinking about it and forgot to from before...
I meant to mention (like a year or two ago... or whenever we were discussing it) that me laughing about Scaruffi's ratings of Bresson when he finally updated them was not meant to disparage Bresson or you (or anyone) that thought they would be higher. I thought they would be higher too, maybe not as high, but higher nonetheless. I was laughing at the fact that it was so fitting of Scaruffi to surprise everyone with relatively low ratings for such an acclaimed cult director that one would think would better match his views/criteria.
I was suddenly reminded of me forgetting to clarify this to you when I just saw his new rating for the Black Country New Road album that probably everyone thought would score (at least a bit) higher than 5.5.
So there you go... Random comment over.
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Last edited by AfterHours on 09/12/2022 17:42; edited 1 time in total
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TiggaTrigga
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- #1012
- Posted: 09/11/2022 21:40
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| TiggaTrigga wrote: | What about something instrumental, especially something that doesn't have a clear emphasis on a certain instrument - would there be a main character in those pieces?
I'll give some examples:
-1/1 (Music for Airports) - Brian Eno
-In Doubt - Peter Gabriel
-What Does Your Soul Look Like, Part 4 - DJ Shadow
-Hallogallo - Neu
-Freeform Freak-Out (the 1st one) - Red Krayola |
Alright, so I actually have a couple of other examples I'd need clarification on:
-What Does Your Soul Look Like (Pt 4) - DJ Shadow (unsure if the main character is the bass or something else (or nothing in particular))
-I actually would like your input on this. I changed my mind lol
-Non-Alignment Pact - Pere Ubu (to me, it seems like the main character is the dissonant synthesizer -- aka whatever the heck is making those noises throughout the song)
-Seasoned Greetings - The Residents (they go through a variety of instrumentation, and there aren't really any vocals, so idk if there is a main character in this one)
And about the Faust songtitles: do you think their lyrics are basically meaningless/absurdist too? I literally had a dream about trying to figure out the meaning behind the lyrics to Meadow Meal.
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #1013
- Posted: 09/11/2022 22:14
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@ DelBoca
Re: Blowin' in the Wind
I meant to include that his voice is fraught between the broken, concerned youth of his generation and "elderly reminiscence" thus encapsulating both and universalizing his sentiment to a whole country, the gamut of its age groups, affected by the times and the threat of war (youth and veterans alike)
(So not just "youth" ... forgot to add this point to what I said before posting)
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homelessking
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- #1014
- Posted: 09/14/2022 14:11
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Would you say that the poem at the end of Miss Fortune is one of the keys to unlocking the album?
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #1015
- Posted: 09/17/2022 21:03
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| TiggaTrigga wrote: | | TiggaTrigga wrote: | What about something instrumental, especially something that doesn't have a clear emphasis on a certain instrument - would there be a main character in those pieces?
I'll give some examples:
-1/1 (Music for Airports) - Brian Eno
-In Doubt - Peter Gabriel
-What Does Your Soul Look Like, Part 4 - DJ Shadow
-Hallogallo - Neu
-Freeform Freak-Out (the 1st one) - Red Krayola |
Alright, so I actually have a couple of other examples I'd need clarification on:
-What Does Your Soul Look Like (Pt 4) - DJ Shadow (unsure if the main character is the bass or something else (or nothing in particular))
-I actually would like your input on this. I changed my mind lol
-Non-Alignment Pact - Pere Ubu (to me, it seems like the main character is the dissonant synthesizer -- aka whatever the heck is making those noises throughout the song)
-Seasoned Greetings - The Residents (they go through a variety of instrumentation, and there aren't really any vocals, so idk if there is a main character in this one)
And about the Faust songtitles: do you think their lyrics are basically meaningless/absurdist too? I literally had a dream about trying to figure out the meaning behind the lyrics to Meadow Meal. |
For Non-Alignment Pact (and the entire album) it is Thomas, the vocals. The accompaniment is hugely important but tends to be representational of the industrial environment. Such as the noises you mention (assuming we are talking about the same noises) are musical representations of smoke or steam billowing out of the industrial landscape (or perhaps from machines or vehicles such as trains etc), along with all sorts of other machinistic noises/actions being expressed by the instrumentation. But the vocals are the "main character" traversing through this landscape, in a fit of delirium and anxiety, madness, agony, etc.
I would say that in the vast majority of albums featuring a lead vocalist, this (almost or pretty much always) represents the (so-called) "main character" in this or that scene being presented by the music.
I may take up those others later if/when I get around to revisiting them...
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #1016
- Posted: 09/21/2022 22:18
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| homelessking wrote: | | Would you say that the poem at the end of Miss Fortune is one of the keys to unlocking the album? |
Probably the most meaningful lyrics on the album. I don't know if it's completely necessary but it can be considered a bit of a clue or summation or economical encapsulation of themes.
I think the following from Scaruffi is a very key observation towards 'getting' the album, similar ideas of which are also vaguely alluded to in the poem:
Piero Scaruffi: Their opus was a black mass that deteriorated into "happening".
Also key, from Scaruffi: Technically, the ensemble's music pushed to the extreme an aesthetics of darkness, ugliness, fear, chaos, irrational that stemmed from expressionism, surrealism, theater of the absurd, Brecht/Weill's cabaret, myth of the supermensch, Wagner-ain melodrama, musique concrete and abstract painting, all fused in a formal system that was as much metaphysical as grotesque. Influenced by Frank Zappa's collages, these teutonic vampires injected angst, like burning lava, into a sound that was deliberately fastidious, repulsive, incoherent. Demented, demonic, paranoid, acid and violent, their compositions constitute a puzzle of sonic boutades and hermetic puns.
Boutade = An impulsive, often illogical turn of mind
Hermetic = relating to an ancient occult tradition encompassing alchemy, astrology, and theosophy
All of the passages are "deteriorating" (forming into, then fading from view, constructing then deconstructing themselves, fading into a black abyss of nothingness).
"Are we supposed to be or not to be?" Each musical passage can be seen as symbolic of this question, being constructed from "thought" or "consciousness" as if a philosopher ruminating over them about the state of humanity. But also they are often gone almost as soon as they've begun, "being" or "not being".
All the music is more abstract, symbolic, metaphorical of "meaning" rather than a detailed musical construction/composition of such. It is questionable as to "what" really happened throughout the construction of this music, as it is playing out, yet it is so potent, brilliant, lyrical that it seems to portend a very complete (yet endlessly elusive) sense of meaning far greater than seems possible. As well, what seems to be symbolized through the music, is "from chaos comes order" (from seemingly random, found sounds and seemingly disassociated passages is yet erected a monument of lyricism sublimating emotion and meaning, from which is formed a rather astounding metaphoric conveyance of the human condition).
"And at the end realize that nobody knows if it really happened".
Piero Scaruffi, on Miss Fortune: This fairytale, and one verse in particular, sums up Faust’s entire, complex philosophy, dealt with throughout the album: “Are we supposed to be or not to be.” With this closing song, Faust had managed to blend the grotesque, the everyday, and the transcendent into a colossal contradiction, a catastrophic imbalance, which serves as a summation of the human condition that in a way is more accurate than any rational discourse.
The album’s overwhelming feeling is one of loneliness, helplessness, and despair. The sonic cyclones loom over the gaunt, threatening fate of human existence. The humanity that transpires from the album’s overwhelming message of apocalypse is both physical (the Germanic accents) and mental (all the paranoia of modern man), inexorably doomed to crumble against the rugged ramparts of history. Faust, Goethe-ian and Wagnerian, raise a solemn hymn to universal defeat, which sublimates the titanic human adventure. Humans who, while admiring the immense universe, wonder doubtful and fearful "Are we supposed to be or not to be?" are the most poignant vision handed down by Germanic rock. The final lines of the record ("... and at the end realize that/ nobody knows/ if it really happened") beat any lyric ever written by Bob Dylan or Nick Cave. This is simply great poetry.
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TiggaTrigga
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- #1017
- Posted: 09/22/2022 23:39
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| AfterHours wrote: |
For Non-Alignment Pact (and the entire album) it is Thomas, the vocals. The accompaniment is hugely important but tends to be representational of the industrial environment. Such as the noises you mention (assuming we are talking about the same noises) are musical representations of smoke or steam billowing out of the industrial landscape (or perhaps from machines or vehicles such as trains etc), along with all sorts of other machinistic noises/actions being expressed by the instrumentation. But the vocals are the "main character" traversing through this landscape, in a fit of delirium and anxiety, madness, agony, etc.
I would say that in the vast majority of albums featuring a lead vocalist, this (almost or pretty much always) represents the (so-called) "main character" in this or that scene being presented by the music.
I may take up those others later if/when I get around to revisiting them... |
That makes sense, and I feel like if there were a "secondary character", it would definitely be the industrial noises/instrumentation representing machinery.
If you're still up for it, I'm still uncertain about these tracks:
-What Does Your Soul Look Like (Pt 4) - DJ Shadow (unsure if the main character is the bass or something else (or nothing in particular))
-Seasoned Greetings - The Residents (they go through a variety of instrumentation, and there aren't really any vocals, so idk if there is a main character in this one)
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #1018
- Posted: 09/26/2022 17:50
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EXPLANATION: WHAT IS THIS LOG??? Go here: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...094#571094
For my criteria page, go here: http://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/vi...hp?t=15503
To visit my Main lists, go here:
Greatest Classical Music Works: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...hp?t=15098
Greatest Albums (Rock & Jazz): https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...hp?t=15276
Greatest Films: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...hp?t=15558
Greatest Paintings: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...hp?t=15560
Greatest Works of Art: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...hp?t=16117
Bold = Newly added
Bold + Italics = Was already listed but recently upgraded/downgraded
Top 10+ Music, Movies, and Visual Art of the Week(s): 9-26-2022 - 10-16-2022
Rock Bottom - Robert Wyatt (1974)
Sistine Chapel: Ceiling and The Last Judgment - Michelangelo Buonarroti (1512; 1541)
Medici Chapel: The Sagrestia Nuova - Michelangelo Buonarroti (1555) [Sculpture and Architecture]
Brazil - Terry Gilliam (1985) [Final Cut, 142 min]
Guernica - Pablo Picasso (1937)
Les Demoiselles d'Avignon - Pablo Picasso (1907)
The Virgin - Gustav Klimt (1913)
Lorca - Tim Buckley (1970)
Virgin of the Rocks - Leonardo da Vinci (circa 1483-1486)
The Ecstasy of Saint Teresa - Gian Lorenzo Bernini (1652) [Sculpture and Architecture]
Metamorphose de Narcisse - Salvador Dali (1937)
David - Michelangelo Buonarroti (1504) [Sculpture]
Moses - Michelangelo Buonarroti (1515) [Sculpture]
White Men Can't Jump - Ron Shelton (1992)
Beggar's Banquet - Rolling Stones (1968)
The Colour of Spring - Talk Talk (1986)
Heartbeat City - The Cars (1984)
FAMILIAR FILMS - RE-RATED:
White Men Can't Jump - Ron Shelton (1992) Not Rated to 6.8/10; 6.8/10 to 6.9/10
FAMILIAR PAINTINGS/VISUAL ART - RE-RATED:
The Beethoven Frieze - Gustav Klimt (1902) 8.7/10 to 8.6/10
Europe After The Rain II - Max Ernst (1942) 8.5/10 to 8.4/10
The Last Judgment - Hieronymus Bosch (circa 1482-1508) [Vienna Version] 8.4/10 to 8.2/10
Medici Chapel: The Sagrestia Nuova - Michelangelo Buonarroti (1555) [Sculpture and Architecture] 8.0/10 to 8.1/10
Psicostasia - Dino Valls (2005) 7.9/10 to 8.0/10
St. Matthew Cycle: The Calling of St. Matthew; The Inspiration of St. Matthew; The Martyrdom of St. Matthew - Michelangelo Caravaggio (1602) 8.2/10 to 8.0/10
The Gates of Hell - Auguste Rodin (1889 "Expressionist" Version; Unfinished, revised between two main versions, 1880-1917; Bronze cast 1926-1928) [Sculpture] 8.0/10 to 7.9/10
Crucifixion (Corpus Hypercubus) - Salvador Dali (1954) 7.8/10 to 7.7/10
Triumph of Death - Pieter Bruegel the Elder (1562) 7.8/10 to 7.7/10
TOP 50 WORKS OF ART OF THE YEAR (2022)
Sistine Chapel: Ceiling and The Last Judgment - Michelangelo Buonarroti (1512; 1541)
Lorca - Tim Buckley (1970)
Rock Bottom - Robert Wyatt (1974)
St. Peter's Basilica - Michelangelo Buonarroti, Donato Bramante, Carlo Maderno and Gian Lorenzo Bernini (1626) [Architecture]
Spiderland - Slint (1991)
In the Aeroplane Over the Sea - Neutral Milk Hotel (1997)
Brazil - Terry Gilliam (1985) [The Final Cut, 142 minutes]
Guernica - Pablo Picasso (1937)
The Velvet Underground and Nico - The Velvet Underground (1966)
The Beethoven Frieze - Gustav Klimt (1902)
Daydream Nation - Sonic Youth (1988)
Persona - Ingmar Bergman (1966)
Desertshore - Nico (1970)
Vertigo - Alfred Hitchcock (1958)
Possession - Andrzej Zulawski (1981)
Improvisie - Paul Bley (1971)
Touch of Evil - Orson Welles (1958)
Neu! - Neu! (1972)
North by Northwest - Alfred Hitchcock (1959)
Citizen Kane - Orson Welles (1941)
Pulp Fiction - Quentin Tarantino (1994)
Piano Sonata No. 20 in A Major - Franz Schubert (1828)
Isenheim Altarpiece - Matthias Grunewald [includes sculpture by Nikolaus Hagenauer] (circa 1512-1516)
The Ecstasy of Saint Teresa - Gian Lorenzo Bernini (1652) [Sculpture and Architecture]
The Gates of Hell - Auguste Rodin (1889 "Expressionist" Version) [Sculpture]
Laughing Stock - Talk Talk (1991)
Piano Sonata No. 32 in C Minor - Ludwig van Beethoven (1822)
Marquee Moon - Television (1977)
The Doors - The Doors (1966)
Blue - Joni Mitchell (1971)
Symphony No. 5 in C Minor - Ludwig van Beethoven (1808)
Symphony No. 6 in A minor "Tragic" - Gustav Mahler (1904; 1906)
Psycho - Alfred Hitchcock (1960)
Les Demoiselles d'Avignon - Pablo Picasso (1907)
Music For Airports - Brian Eno (1978)
Europe After The Rain II - Max Ernst (1942)
2001: A Space Odyssey - Stanley Kubrick (1968)
Taxi Driver - Martin Scorsese (1976)
Sandham Memorial Chapel: The Resurrection of the Soldiers & War Murals - Stanley Spencer (1929)
Violin Concertos Nos. 1-4, "The Four Seasons" - Antonio Vivaldi (1723)
The Sacrifice - Andrei Tarkovsky (1986)
St. Matthew Cycle: The Calling of St. Matthew; The Inspiration of St. Matthew; The Martyrdom of St. Matthew - Michelangelo Caravaggio (1602)
The Last Supper - Leonardo Da Vinci (1497)
Piano Sonata No. 30 in E Major - Ludwig van Beethoven (1820)
It's Such a Beautiful Day - Don Hertzfeldt (2012)
Apollo and Daphne - Gian Lorenzo Bernini (1625) [Sculpture]
Medici Chapel: The Sagrestia Nuova - Michelangelo Buonarroti (1555) [Sculpture and Architecture]
I Lie Here Buried With My Rings and My Dresses - Backxwash (2021)
The Modern Dance - Pere Ubu (1978)
La Dolce Vita - Federico Fellini (1960)
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Last edited by AfterHours on 10/17/2022 16:30; edited 7 times in total
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Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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