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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #851
- Posted: 05/04/2022 00:28
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| TiggaTrigga wrote: | Oh dang that is helpful! Insight on Friendly As a Hand Grenade? I'd read Scaruffi's thoughts but I can't speak Italian. I will say that Demolition House is a weird track and Ska Trek is awesomely funky and kinda ska.
...I still don't understand why Scaruffi associates it with hip-hop but whatever. |
It only has some (vague) hip hop parts (and isn't listed on mine because of that). It's probably more funk/soul than anything else (which is associates it with my genre list for the most part). I didn't think Scaruffi specifically associates it with hip hop does he?
I'll probably listen to it at least once more (to double check it is or isn't an 8/10) and may say something about it after that.
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #853
- Posted: 05/04/2022 04:19
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Ah yes, okay. Not sure if that means he would actually put the Friendly as a Hand Grenade album specifically on a best hip hop albums list (if he ever updates it). Just like he obviously wouldn't include Pop Group in "hip hop" even though he mentions them/Mark Stewart too, and even if they too have vague correlations to the genre and fusion of funk, dub, punk, rock, etc.
With Tackhead, I think he is mainly just stringing a line with their innovation/correlation of hip hop + rock fusion, beginning just above that with Run DMC.
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- #854
- Posted: 05/04/2022 19:22
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Hmm, reason for upgrading The Marshall Mathers LP so high? Some people say the 2nd half of the album isn't nearly as good as the 1st half, and the production is marginally simplistic compared to, say, The Cold Vein or Death Grips.
And since you listened to The Money Store lately, I don't remember if I recommended Steroids from Death Grips, but it's definitely an interesting EP.
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #855
- Posted: 05/04/2022 21:47
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| TiggaTrigga wrote: | Hmm, reason for upgrading The Marshall Mathers LP so high? Some people say the 2nd half of the album isn't nearly as good as the 1st half, and the production is marginally simplistic compared to, say, The Cold Vein or Death Grips.
And since you listened to The Money Store lately, I don't remember if I recommended Steroids from Death Grips, but it's definitely an interesting EP. |
Re: Marshall Mathers ... 7.3 to 7.6 isn't a huge leap, and MM was 7.5, 7.6 or 7.7 (each at varying points) for years before I downgraded it to 7.3/7.4 range (and has been in those higher ranges for longer than its been lower). So it's not so much, in this case, that I made some new discovery in the album, and it's a pretty mild tweak in qualitative consideration to go from 7.3 to 7.6 -- I just listened to it again and realized I had underrated it the previous listen or two. It was precisely because of its back half that I had downgraded it to 7.3, but on this listen I realized that it is around 7.2-7.3 or so already by the end of its first half. The back half (tracks 11-18... based on the nearest split of running times) isn't bad (especially the title track, Kim, Criminal ... Amityville is pretty good too) but it loses consistency there for sure, due at least as much to how disparate the content is as the (less extreme, but still evident) drop in actual quality song to song. The album loses focus on what it had been building through I'm Back, and thus a bit of qualitative momentum. There's a stretch there where it's like he wanted to fit some songs in that could be played on the radio/sold well as singles (for being far less daring, vulgar), and the whole takes a hit. He also may have been trying to avoid repetition by varying the concept, but it doesn't quite work. As it is the second half is probably around 6.2, even if it has some of the best tracks, it's just too disparate to "accumulate" much from track-to-track, even if those individual peaks are still great (Kim, etc). Plus, even its best tracks are sort of repetitious of points he has already made in the first half (besides Kim). So, 7.3 + 6.2 would equate to probably 7.7 overall (on my ratings scale being considered right at this moment, not the current one listed on my criteria page), and the back half might be a little higher (6.3+) which could push it up a bit more. I actually almost upgraded it to 7.7 or 7.8 but the actual experience of it was more like a 7.6 due mainly to the disparate back half, lack of cohesion (and a mild sense of repetition of his points, of a very mild sense of the album starting to overstay its welcome, needing some trimming) and thus the lessened accumulation that could usually take place with those same parts (if they cohered better and probably should've edited a few tracks out of the whole). Likely would've been a 7.8+ at around 15 tracks, removing some from the back half.
Much of the album is theatrical and "self-analysis" and the production tends to work very well within that framework (too dense or bombastic, or overly colorful, could possibly ruin the "conversations with two halves of one-self" and the psychological ambiguity/insanity/satire/black comedy etc on display, in this case).
^^^ I am rushed right now and probably too wordy/messy with how I said all that, but you probably get the main idea...
Thanks, I'll keep Steroids in mind. Fwiw, I didn't actually listen to Money Store on this round. I just added it after Facetious reminded me about it and I realized I had never put it on my list from a few years back or whenever I last listened. But I probably will get around to some Death Grips during this round of listening.
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Facetious
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- #856
- Posted: 05/06/2022 23:11
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Thoughts on Iridescence? I'm especially curious to see what you think of it after listening to the Saturation trilogy considering Iridescence is usually considered to be the point where Brockhampton fell off (look at the difference in their RYM scores!)
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Facetious
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- #857
- Posted: 05/09/2022 19:49
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Re: Beware getting downgraded... To be honest, I always thought Planet Rock was the superior album, and I find it odd that Scaruffi praises some of the tracks but doesn't give a rating considering it's Afrika Bambaataa's most acclaimed work. What are your thoughts on the two albums?
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #858
- Posted: 05/10/2022 19:27
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| Facetious wrote: | | Thoughts on Iridescence? I'm especially curious to see what you think of it after listening to the Saturation trilogy considering Iridescence is usually considered to be the point where Brockhampton fell off (look at the difference in their RYM scores!) |
I haven't heard their others yet but may say a bit once I hear at least Saturation 2 or possibly the whole trilogy.
RYM scores can be reliable for finding lots of 6.5s, 7s (and occasionally better), though (to me) is not often an indicator of which work was an artist's best (except perhaps for a mainstream artist's oeuvre). Though maybe marginally less than other similar sites, these popularity contests often reward albums the most that find a middle ground between semi-creative (or "faux-experimental") and popular music (mid period Pink Floyd, Radiohead, Beatles peak, Bowie, and so on), but only occasionally (if at all) those that push the envelope much past that into newer or more radical, ambitious sound worlds, more singular expressive ground, etc.
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Last edited by AfterHours on 05/10/2022 20:55; edited 1 time in total
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AfterHours
Gender: Male
Location: originally from scaruffi.com ;-)
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- #859
- Posted: 05/10/2022 19:28
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| Facetious wrote: | | Re: Beware getting downgraded... To be honest, I always thought Planet Rock was the superior album, and I find it odd that Scaruffi praises some of the tracks but doesn't give a rating considering it's Afrika Bambaataa's most acclaimed work. What are your thoughts on the two albums? |
I'll try and revisit Planet Rock soon, then compare...
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AfterHours
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- #860
- Posted: 05/10/2022 19:44
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For my criteria page, go here: http://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/vi...hp?t=15503
To visit my Main lists, go here:
Greatest Classical Music Works: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...hp?t=15098
Greatest Albums (Rock & Jazz): https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...hp?t=15276
Greatest Films: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...hp?t=15558
Greatest Paintings: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...hp?t=15560
Greatest Works of Art: https://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/v...hp?t=16117
Bold = Newly added
Bold + Italics = Was already listed but recently upgraded/downgraded
Top 10+ Music, Movies, and Visual Art of the Week(s): 5-9-2022 - 5-29-2022
Early Bourgeois Revolution in Germany - Werner Tubke (1987) [aka, "Peasants' War Panorama"]
Blue - Joni Mitchell (1971)
Jagged Little Pill - Alanis Morissette (1995)
David - Michelangelo Buonarroti (1504)
Moses - Michelangelo Buonarroti (1515)
What's Going On - Marvin Gaye (1971)
Seinfeld: Season 4 - Created by: Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld (Various Directors) (1992-1993) ...Note: watched these seasons gradually over the last 5+ months, an episode here an episode there, only now just deciding to rate/rank...
Apollo and Daphne - Gian Lorenzo Bernini (1625)
Sign O' the Times - Prince (1987)
Cast Away - Robert Zemeckis (2000)
Seinfeld: Season 3 - Created by: Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld (Various Directors) (1991-1992) ...Note: watched these seasons gradually over the last 5+ months, an episode here an episode there, only now just deciding to rate/rank...
Entertainment - Gang of Four (1979)
Seinfeld: Season 2 - Created by: Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld (Various Directors) (1990-1991) ...Note: watched these seasons gradually over the last 5+ months, an episode here an episode there, only now just deciding to rate/rank...
Funkentelechy Vs The Placebo Syndrome - Parliament (1977)
The Scream - Edvard Munch (1893)
The Thinker - Auguste Rodin (1904) [Enlarged solo version, Rodin Museum, 1904; Originally conceived on a smaller scale as part of an ensemble for "Gates of Hell", 1880] ...No Rating Yet...
Pure Heroine - Lorde (2013)
Top 10+ Albums/Movies/Visual Art for the Week(s) - Rated 2.8/10 to 6.7/10
Break Out - The Pointer Sisters (1983)
In Time - Andrew Niccol (2011)
Odessey and Oracle - Zombies (1968)
Seinfeld: Season 1 - Created by: Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld (Various Directors) (1989-1990) ...Note: watched these seasons gradually over the last 5+ months, an episode here an episode there, only now just deciding to rate/rank...
True Blue - Madonna (1986)
Dirty Mind - Prince (1980)
Like a Prayer - Madonna (1989)
Madonna - Madonna (1983)
When Harry Met Sally - Rob Reiner (1989)
The Firm - Sydney Pollack (1993)
Forgetting Sarah Marshall - Nicholas Stoller (2008)
Jerry Maguire - Cameron Crowe (1996)
The Sign - Ace of Base (1992) [aka, Happy Nation, US Version]
Sour - Olivia Rodrigo (2021)
Teenage Dream - Katy Perry (2010)
21 - Adele (2011)
Control - Janet Jackson (1985)
Steroids (Crouching Tiger Hidden Gabber Megamix) - Death Grips (2017) Not Rated Yet ... Undecided as to whether 5.5, 6, 6.5 and may still have a shot at 6.8+...
Like a Virgin - Madonna (1984)
Top Gun - Tony Scott (1986)
1989 - Taylor Swift (2014)
Red - Taylor Swift (2012)
Revolver - The Beatles (1966)
25 - Adele (2015)
Rubber Soul - The Beatles (1965)
Transformers - Michael Bay (2007)
Let's Get it Started - MC Hammer (1988)
II - Boyz II Men (1994)
FAMILIAR ROCK/JAZZ ALBUMS - RE-RATED:
Break Out - The Pointer Sisters (1983) 6.0/10 to 6.4/10
Madonna - Madonna (1983) 5.9/10 to 6.0/10
21 - Adele (2011) 5.6/10 to 5.9/10
The Sign - Ace of Base (1992) [aka, Happy Nation, US Version] 5.7/10 to 5.8/10
I Never Loved A Man The Way I Love You - Aretha Franklin (1967) 5.7/10 to 5.8/10
25 - Adele (2015) 5.8/10 to 5.1/10
Let's Get it Started - MC Hammer (1988) Not Rated to 4.0/10
II - Boyz II Men (1994) 3.3/10 to 4.0/10
NEWLY LISTENED - ROCK/JAZZ ALBUMS - RATED:
Sour - Olivia Rodrigo (2021) 5.8/10
FAMILIAR FILMS - RE-RATED:
Seinfeld: Season 4 - Created by: Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld (Various Directors) (1992-1993) Not Rated to 7.2/10
Seinfeld: Season 3 - Created by: Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld (Various Directors) (1991-1992) Not Rated to 7.0/10
Cast Away - Robert Zemeckis (2000) Not Rated to 6.9/10
Seinfeld: Season 2 - Created by: Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld (Various Directors) (1990-1991) Not Rated to 6.8/10
Seinfeld: Season 1 - Created by: Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld (Various Directors) (1989-1990) Not Rated to 6.4/10
When Harry Met Sally - Rob Reiner (1989) Not Rated to 6.1/10
The Firm - Sydney Pollack (1993) Not Rated to 6.0/10
Top Gun - Tony Scott (1986) Not Rated to 4.8/10 ... Hadn't seen this since the 80s when I was a kid. Mainly revisiting it because of the new one coming out that is getting a lot of critical acclaim and some of my friends are pretty psyched about seeing it. So it was prep work so to speak.
The film has some visual merit and the flying scenes are well shot and choreographed. The acting is "okay" but is otherwise kind of fun for how much machismo it features (including cliche but funny locker room scenes, beach volleyball scene, bar scenes, academy scenes) all where cheesy, manly one-up-manship is almost constantly on display. Along with this, many of the scenes (including the flight sequences) seem to have a potential sexual subtext going on. Though, this is arguable if directorally intentional (or perhaps even just tongue in cheek aside between Scott and the screenwriter to play up the machismo in an added symbolic light?). Anyway, it's by no means Alien in this regard but this added to the cheesy mild fun of it all.
The visuals and the machismo of practically every sequence seemed to serve as a template for the mega-hyped doses of testosterone and hilariously "awesome" editing, acting and cinematography of future Michael Bay films such as Transformers etc (where practically every shot is the director proclaiming himself a hype man for "I am an Epic American of the military industrial complex" and also telling you that "I, Michael Bay, am amazing", especially the establishing shot sequences <<<<--- seriously, film like Transformers is quite high on the unintentional comedy scale in this regard and almost great in an ironic way ... Anyway, Top Gun has a lot of this too, and it makes it kind of ironically fun -- just with far less of a hard on for epic, hyper-montage that Bay infused it with later)
Transformers - Michael Bay (2007) Not Rated to 4.5/10
NEWLY WATCHED FILMS - RATED:
In Time - Andrew Niccol (2011) 6.3/10
Forgetting Sarah Marshall - Nicholas Stoller (2008) 5.8/10
FAMILIAR PAINTINGS/VISUAL ART - RE-RATED:
Apollo and Daphne - Gian Lorenzo Bernini (1625) 7.4/10 to 7.5/10
David - Michelangelo Buonarroti (1504) 7.4/10 to 7.5/10
TOP 50 WORKS OF ART OF THE YEAR (2022)
Sistine Chapel: Ceiling and The Last Judgment - Michelangelo Buonarroti (1512; 1541)
St. Peter's Basilica - Michelangelo Buonarroti, Donato Bramante, Carlo Maderno and Gian Lorenzo Bernini (1626) [Architecture]
Brazil - Terry Gilliam (1985) [The Final Cut, 142 minutes]
Lorca - Tim Buckley (1970)
The Beethoven Frieze - Gustav Klimt (1902)
Citizen Kane - Orson Welles (1941)
Spiderland - Slint (1991)
Persona - Ingmar Bergman (1966)
North by Northwest - Alfred Hitchcock (1959)
Piano Sonata No. 20 in A Major - Franz Schubert (1828)
Isenheim Altarpiece - Matthias Grunewald [includes sculpture by Nikolaus Hagenauer] (circa 1512-1516)
The Ecstasy of Saint Teresa - Gian Lorenzo Bernini (1652) [Sculpture and Architecture]
The Gates of Hell - Auguste Rodin (1889 "Expressionist" Version) [Sculpture]
Piano Sonata No. 32 in C Minor - Ludwig van Beethoven (1822)
Marquee Moon - Television (1977)
The Velvet Underground and Nico - The Velvet Underground (1966)
The Doors - The Doors (1966)
Touch of Evil - Orson Welles (1958)
Symphony No. 5 in C Minor - Ludwig van Beethoven (1808)
Symphony No. 6 in A minor "Tragic" - Gustav Mahler (1904; 1906)
Europe After The Rain II - Max Ernst (1942)
Piano Sonata in B Minor - Franz Liszt (1853)
Sandham Memorial Chapel: The Resurrection of the Soldiers & War Murals - Stanley Spencer (1929)
Violin Concertos Nos. 1-4, "The Four Seasons" - Antonio Vivaldi (1723)
Symphony No. 4 in E Minor - Johannes Brahms (1884)
Symphony No. 8 in B Minor "Unfinished" - Franz Schubert (1822)
Piano Sonata No. 23 in F Minor "Appassionata" - Ludwig van Beethoven (1805)
The Sacrifice - Andrei Tarkovsky (1986)
St. Matthew Cycle: The Calling of St. Matthew; The Inspiration of St. Matthew; The Martyrdom of St. Matthew - Michelangelo Caravaggio (1602)
The Last Supper - Leonardo Da Vinci (1497)
Y - The Pop Group (1979)
Piano Sonata No. 30 in E Major - Ludwig van Beethoven (1820)
It's Such a Beautiful Day - Don Hertzfeldt (2012)[/b]
Apollo and Daphne - Gian Lorenzo Bernini (1625) [Sculpture]
Les Demoiselles d'Avignon - Pablo Picasso (1907)
Guernica - Pablo Picasso (1937)
Medici Chapel: The Sagrestia Nuova - Michelangelo Buonarroti (1555) [Sculpture and Architecture]
I Lie Here Buried With My Rings and My Dresses - Backxwash (2021)
Rock Bottom - Robert Wyatt (1974)
Pieta - Michelangelo Buonarroti (1499)
The Entire City [Zurich Version] - Max Ernst (1936)
Mission: Impossible III - J. J. Abrams (2006)
Symphony No. 9 in D Minor "Choral" - Ludwig van Beethoven (1824)
Strange Days - The Doors (1967)
Consumer Revolt - Cop Shoot Cop (1990)
Have One On Me - Joanna Newsom (2010)
Cache - Michael Haneke (2005)
The Godfather, Part 2 - Francis Ford Coppola (1974)
Straw Dogs - Sam Peckinpah (1971)
Taxi Driver - Martin Scorsese (1976)
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