Chart editor suggestions. - Suggestions - Forums : Best Ever Albums

musicoed

Gender: Male
Location: SPb

Jameth wrote:

...
And yes! No other site offers anything close to the kind of effortless ability to assemble charts this feature would offer. It could be a big draw to the site.

Yes, it's still true, but it won't last forever.
I've been following BEA for three years now.
And, unfortunately, I did not notice any significant progress in this either.

musicoed wrote:

11/20/2018
...
For this reason, I try not to rate tracks and albums on other resources.
My grades are too low, they mess up averages.

BEA is the most advanced evaluation system I've ever met.
Here they track the year and will not allow twice to put the album in one list.
But there is no end-to-end system for albums on BEA.
1 place in the list for all times and last for its year can occupy one album.
An ideal rating system should aim at avoiding unreasonable choices.
I can only dream to:
- the calculation of the average score for the tracks occurred automatically.
- album rating was based on these average ratings for the tracks.
Then, in order to raise or lower the album in the rating I will have to change the estimates of the tracks.
Then I will be interested to rate each track on the album from the list.
And believe me I will do it. For 10 years I am already pretty tired of the calculator.
In parallel, make available the list for the best selected tracks.
And if such options are available at a certain level, then I will strive for this level.
At the moment, there are no incentives for getting additional points on the BEA.

_________________
I'm using a translation program / 2018 / 2019 / 2020

Jameth

musicoed wrote:

Jameth wrote:

...
And yes! No other site offers anything close to the kind of effortless ability to assemble charts this feature would offer. It could be a big draw to the site.

Yes, it's still true, but it won't last forever.
I've been following BEA for three years now.
And, unfortunately, I did not notice any significant progress in this either.

musicoed wrote:

11/20/2018
...
For this reason, I try not to rate tracks and albums on other resources.
My grades are too low, they mess up averages.

BEA is the most advanced evaluation system I've ever met.
Here they track the year and will not allow twice to put the album in one list.
But there is no end-to-end system for albums on BEA.
1 place in the list for all times and last for its year can occupy one album.
An ideal rating system should aim at avoiding unreasonable choices.
I can only dream to:
- the calculation of the average score for the tracks occurred automatically.
- album rating was based on these average ratings for the tracks.
Then, in order to raise or lower the album in the rating I will have to change the estimates of the tracks.
Then I will be interested to rate each track on the album from the list.
And believe me I will do it. For 10 years I am already pretty tired of the calculator.
In parallel, make available the list for the best selected tracks.
And if such options are available at a certain level, then I will strive for this level.
At the moment, there are no incentives for getting additional points on the BEA.

I think your meaning might be a bit lost in translation, but to me, you seem to be insinuating that this won't get done because a feature you brought up in a thread over on the Music board over two years ago hasn't been implemented. Did you make a thread about it here in the Suggestions forum? Because, this thread is proof that feature requests get done.

Anyways, you seem to be wanting the site to calculate your album rating by averaging your track ratings. Maybe albummaster will respond to your request here...

As far as a "list for the best selected tracks" (I'm just using your same words to avoid confusion), you can already do this by accessing your track ratings through your profile. But, I think there's a recent thread here in Suggestions wherein someone was asking for a way to chart tracks, not just albums, if that's what you mean. And, I believe albummaster said he was considering adding that feature, but I'm not sure.
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musicoed

Gender: Male
Location: SPb

Jameth wrote:

...
I think your meaning might be a bit lost in translation, but to me, you seem to be insinuating that this won't get done because a feature you brought up in a thread over on the Music board over two years ago hasn't been implemented. Did you make a thread about it here in the Suggestions forum? Because, this thread is proof that feature requests get done.

Not everyone is so lucky with the fulfillment of their desires.)) But this is definitely not a claim.
There were many reasons why I was not persistent, including the lack of translation from English.

Jameth wrote:

...
Anyways, you seem to be wanting the site to calculate your album rating by averaging your track ratings. Maybe albummaster will respond to your request here...

As far as a "list for the best selected tracks" (I'm just using your same words to avoid confusion), you can already do this by accessing your track ratings through your profile. But, I think there's a recent thread here in Suggestions wherein someone was asking for a way to chart tracks, not just albums, if that's what you mean. And, I believe albummaster said he was considering adding that feature, but I'm not sure.

All this was in 2018. During this time, a lot has changed.
I, not a programmer, had to solve the problem with automatic averaging in Excel myself.
This is a time consuming process and not justified for one user, but it has already been solved.

The problem in 2021 is that rating resources, for reasons I do not understand, are not developing.
At the same time, the Internet has no monopoly on this for a long time.
After all, even oil will soon give way to electricity, so they promise, if anything.))

Here is my next cry of despair 2021.))

musicoed wrote:

09/01/2021
… My needs for music rating remain unmet. There are conditions that are binding on me that are not supported.
Conditions:

1. End-to-end rating system for tracks. Each track must receive an individual T-rating.
2. A pass-through rating system for albums should be calculated based on T-ratings ...

musicoed wrote:

13/01/2021
… It’s hard for me to say how it should look like. I have nothing to choose from. Testing required.
There is a simple task - to determine the best track of the two.
Further, the task becomes more difficult - to determine the best track from the releases of the week.
The ultimate goal is to identify the best track of all time.
The best track of all time cannot be rated less than or equal to any other, and so on.

I have an approximate algorithm in what form it could suit me personally.
Track scores must have two limits - 0 and 5 (worst and best track score).
To bring the calculations back to the traditional five-star system.
But the values after the decimal point should not be limited.
Let’s say that after evaluating the first album, there are several track ratings.
These marks are set in manual mode and can be any.
If there are the same among them, after entering they must change the values.
As a result, you should get a rating of the album tracks, in which there are no identical values.
The minimum step of values can be set by a formula.
Priority, as I already wrote, can have two levels: date, alphabet.
The second album can also contain the same ratings, including the first album.
Therefore, after entering, all the same estimates will have to change again according to the same formula.

An additional option at will, which would simplify the life of a music lover.
I’m not interested in picking the worst track of all time.
Therefore, I would prefer to rate only the best tracks.
Remove from circulation tracks whose ratings are equal or lower, for example - 2 (in my case).
Consider their value 2, but only when calculating the arithmetic mean for the album.

There is another category of tracks that are short duration.
Such tracks should be excluded from circulation and from album evaluation.

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I'm using a translation program / 2018 / 2019 / 2020

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

I second the idea to auto create charts based on ratings. Way cool feature request.

Jameth

RoundTheBend wrote:

I second the idea to auto create charts based on ratings. Way cool feature request.

Welcome aboard!

Choo choo!!
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Jameth

musicoed wrote:

See above.

So, essentially what you want is to rate tracks and albums in increments of 0.01 or finer, with track ratings automatically averaged to give the album rating, and tracks with no assigned rating ignored.
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albummaster
Janitor

Gender: Male
Location: Spain
Site Admin

Thread has gone off topic but deriving an album rating from the rating of its tracks (having trouble with translation) has been discussed before - what about albums with just one or two tracks? But an album isn't just the sum of it's tracks, it's also the flow and the overall feel etc. If you had an album consisting of the best tracks of all time, that probably wouldn't make it the best album unless those tracks worked together.

I'll have a look at adding some kind of ability to draw albums into a chart based on ratings (or favs or from other lists), but BEA forces you to pick one album over another within your charts (quite a lot of people - myself included Embarassed

- just rate the albums/tracks that they enjoy so rating distribution is skewed). I get the fact some people would like their charts to be consistent with each other (makes sense) and maybe there's a way that overall charts could be drawn from decade charts, which could be drawn from year charts etc, so you could just maintain your year charts and not have to worry about the others (although probably a lot easier/quicker to write this down than to actually implement it). Albums in one year might not be as strong as another, so decade and then overall charts might not capture that aspect and not sure how they'd get merged together (especially if a user's well-liked albums have the same rating). (Doing this the other way around would require overall charts with 1000s of items which would be very unwieldy).

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

Yeah that makes sense. Not everyone agrees on that rating methodology.

I personally found it very liberating/possibly removed some prejudices of what an album "should be" rated as opposed to "show me the facts" approach of the track by track approach. But totally get it's not everyone's jam.

And you are right, probably less than 10% of users rate albums track for track. I used to and found it when I was on "top of my game" super helpful. But now I struggle to.

This new feature would totally motivate me to do so again though.

And there's enough features probably piling up that likely would be a better use of your time.

If it's easy to implement/has the ability to opt in as opposed to default that could make both parties happy, but alas, you do this in your free time so no worries.

Sorry for the ramble.

Jameth

albummaster wrote:

Albums in one year might not be as strong as another, so decade and then overall charts might not capture that aspect and not sure how they'd get merged together (especially if a user's well-liked albums have the same rating). (Doing this the other way around would require overall charts with 1000s of items which would be very unwieldy).

This is why I think using ratings is the best way to do this...it doesn't matter if one year is stronger than another for a given user, the album ratings will sort it out. And, I agree that it would work best starting from year charts, then decade, then overall, and not the other way around. But, I'm assuming you're talking about building the decade and overall charts based on how the user has sorted their year charts?

I really hate to say it, but musicoed's idea for a finer-grained rating system is probably the best solution to the problem of tied albums, especially in the myriad of cases where there's bound to be 10/20/30-way ties. I'm not advocating for decimal ratings, but even just going from the current multiples of five system to multiples of one would make a huge difference in eliminating ties and improving chart consistency.
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albummaster
Janitor

Gender: Male
Location: Spain
Site Admin

RoundTheBend wrote:

And you are right, probably less than 10% of users rate albums track for track. I used to and found it when I was on "top of my game" super helpful. But now I struggle to <snip> This new feature would totally motivate me to do so again though.

And there's enough features probably piling up that likely would be a better use of your time.

If it's easy to implement/has the ability to opt in as opposed to default that could make both parties happy, but alas, you do this in your free time so no worries.

Thanks (last sentence, as always, the main roadblock to doing anything quickly). The way I could see this working and fitting into the existing site with the minimum disruption (and speaking before I've even thought about it properly), is that you could have some kind of filters to select albums from for your chart (based on your own rating, or if they are in your favourites, or whatever else), and these albums could then be brought into a pool of unranked albums within your chart, until you assigned them a rank (the list could be in order of rating if that's what you'd selected). If you subsequently changed the rating of one of your albums, after creating a chart, the list would not be updated to reflect it (or if a new album was released that was rated high enough, it would not appear in your 'chart' automatically as the chart and your list of ratings are two distinct entities). If you just wanted to sort your albums by rating and have them appear as a 'chart' on the site, that would be a separate thing entirely, but not sure how that would 'fit' with how the rest of the site works (and might actually be too big a change to implement).

Jameth wrote:

I really hate to say it, but musicoed's idea for a finer-grained rating system is probably the best solution to the problem of tied albums, especially in the myriad of cases where there's bound to be 10/20/30-way ties. I'm not advocating for decimal ratings, but even just going from the current multiples of five system to multiples of one would make a huge difference in eliminating ties and improving chart consistency.

I'm not against increasing the rating granularity further than it is now, but I think a lot of people will struggle with it. Agree, increased granularity would give you better control and perhaps individual users could choose whether to enable/disable this functionality as point differences are unlikely to have a material impact on averages. The user interface would need to be updated to facilitate this as it would be almost impossible for users to do this using existing rating UI.