Replace top ranked artist with the next one better

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RoundTheBend
These, Antithese, Synthese



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  • #41
  • Posted: 05/23/2020 02:47
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Hayden wrote:
All of your lists are very long and somewhat confusing, so I'll just say Arctic Monkeys and Oasis shouldn't be there and Tom Waits and John Coltrane most certainly should.

And they're way down the line, but I'd make a pretty good case saying Belle And Sebastian should be somewhere in the 30-40 range. Could knock off Genesis for them I suppose.


Understandably not in top 40 but need to be higher—

Seeing Django Reinhardt at 1647th hurts a little. His discography doesn't really hold well on BEA's chart style though, so I get it.

Nina Simone at 249th feels a little low. Same with Monk at 306.

If we could up Fela Kuti from 320th that'd be nice too.

Not sure what you people are thinking with Ravi Shankar at 1416. Go listen to some ragas.


Totally agree with those selections and it's a shame they are so low... especially when seemingly garbage bands are higher...

Seriously Oasis vs any of those hurts my soul.
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Fischman
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  • #42
  • Posted: 05/23/2020 04:31
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RoundTheBend wrote:
Fischman wrote:
RoundTheBend wrote:
Oh for those who left in The Who and Oasis, can you help me understand? I'm not looking to start another fight Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed ... rather just trying to understand. I mean if it's the crown of brit pop and loud rock, well ok.

But I'm always intrigued by all you who are much smarter/experienced than me.

I suppose throw in Neutral Milk Hotel and The Smiths to this. Neutral Milk Hotel I get if it's one album can make it there - I suppose it would need to be massively significant, but like I mentioned there are quite a few albums I'd put at the same level sonically/lyrically/musicianship, etc. (as great as it is).


As for Oasis, they were a retention simply based on not having to reach too far down on the list to cover too many deletions. I don't really like Oasis, but I don't actually find them offensive.

As for The Who, I could gush about them all day. I think they were hugely important, artistically unique, technically brilliant, and I just love the hell out of them.

Let's take a building block approach:

Guitar: not max virtuosity, but super solid. Great riffs, clever lines, clever melodies, tone appropriate to the music etc. It all works and it works exceptionally well.

Vocals: Roger Daltrey is one of the top vocalists/frontmen in rock history. Killer voice! Big power, great expressiveness. Fantastic range. That wicked powerful vocal presence is also matched by his physical presence; the ultimate rock and roll frontman swagger without it being over the top silly. Just pure power without the theatrics. Best of all worlds IMO.

Drums: Two words... Keith.... Moon! Even people who don't like The Who rave about Moon as one of the all time greats. He is the ultimate madman behind the kit! Nobody else ever played with his elan, flair, aggressiveness, and reckless determination. He propels a rock song like no other. He is a genuine force of musical nature.

Bass: As much as I've gushed over the other three positions.... John Entwistle (aka "The Ox") gets even more. A most unique and powerful bassist..... possibly the most unique and powerful bassist in rock history. His lines are insane. Some of them are among the most iconic ever. He integrates a melodic bass line into a song like a great piece of classical counterpoint, but with a super intense hard rock sensibility. Like Moon, there simply never has been, and never will be, anyone like him. Dude was totally Monster!

Far more subjective, but every bit as meaningful to me, is the great songwriting. Townsend's a fantastic lyricist (who admittedly does drop a stinker once in a while). He rarely writes in the common or cliche realm, but rather skirts the edge of the mainstream and finds immense creativity there.

For much of their career, The Who were highly innovative, creative, and like any great rock and roll band, rebellious, even against the rock establishment itself. They followed their own muse and totally kicked ass in the process.

The depth and breadth of Who dislike (no, RTB, you're far from the only one) really surprises me. Rush is my favorite group, but I've always understood how and why they rub so many the wrong way. When someone goes on an anti-Rush rant, I really do get it in spite of my personal aesthetic placing them at the very top of the musical heap. But I'm at a loss to understand the dislike for The Who. There's just simply nothing there I can see as an out-and-out negative (aside from some acknowledged inconsistency in their output... but when they're on, they're flat out unbeatable).



I actually can appreciate that take on the guitar playing - sometimes it's just about the tune - not anything special. It's "playing to the song" - and if anyone knows anything about music, they know what I mean when I say that.

Man - maybe I gotta watch more Live Who, but really the stuff I have seen I haven't gotten the great stage performance you talk about.

And for wiw, I like Rush way more than I do The Who. I don't know why but sometimes when I listen to their music I think of an old man having sex in the grossest way possible, just the grunting and the efforts are all the same as anyone else, but it's just gross with this guy... ahhaahaa. Sorry, that was probably terrible, but somehow makes sense to me.

I do really think My Generation is top 100 songs of all time though. Like that bassline - holy shit and I LOVE how Daltry like purposely stutters in singing... badass for sure... but their entire career being the greatest influence ever... meh. Maybe to bands like G n R and I don't like them either... and possibly therein lies the difference. Maybe those who like The Who also like bands like G n R.


I had a brief flirtation with G&R following the release of Appetite for Destruction, but I outgrew them pretty quick. I guess I can see the correlation inasmuch as both groups are kind of blunt instruments (pun intended)... they're not exactly subtle.
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theblueboy



Gender: Male
Age: 38
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  • #43
  • Posted: 05/23/2020 10:12
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Yeah-I see there's not so much of a staunch defence of Oasis going on here Laughing

After growing up with them-growing to really dislike them due to how much they were overplayed and the whole 90s lad culture in Britain-I seem to have softened to the point of liking their early stuff. Yeah, it's hard to say they are great on the evidence of musicianship or even Noel's songwriting-but, yet I do think they achieved greatness if just for 94-96. Somehow- I think the combination of pilfering sufficiently from great bands of previous generations and the sheer determination to get over the line they came up with two great albums (and a really good B sides collection). The tunes aren't amazing in some kind of Paul Simon/ McCarteney sense but they do have an uplifting quality to them-Noel knew how to write a communal feel-good singalong anthem and could do some wistful ballads as well (Cast no Shadow being their genuinely really pretty moment). There are much better musicians-even in second tier britpop bands- but the guitars sound huge (great sound engineering) and they had a rock n roll swagger that other britpop bands lacked. Everything was borrowed down to the Ian Brown walk but that was the 90s really. The only new thing was this sort of sarcastic nonchalance that was typical of britpop- I used to think that irony was not there in Oasis' music but it's definitely there. This is probably the one think they added to their influences and I think it's part of what resonates with people.

Their reign was brief but enormous. I'd say it lasted as long as Nirvana's anyway. They certainly were the band for a specific time in Britain and were embraced as "the people's music" arguably more than any band in this country since the Beatles.

All that said- I still axed them from my version of the top 40 Laughing Mainly because I like the bands that influenced them more and I prefer Blur! But maybe I should have kept them in because of how they capture something of mid 90s Britain so strongly.
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Yann



Gender: Male
Location: France
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  • #44
  • Posted: 05/23/2020 15:08
  • Post subject: Re: Replace top ranked artist with the next one better
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RoundTheBend wrote:
Yann wrote:
RoundTheBend wrote:


11 The Smiths (Man... try as I might, the clever lyrics don't save this music from being less than great in my book)
I find this band insufferable. Sorry. I feel like the music and the vocals rarely match - it's like they recorded a vocalist from a different band and then a band not related to the vocalist and then superimposed it/forced it to match half the time. Now for 10% of their work it's freaking awesome and the other 90%. Also keep in mind that the clever lyrics are lost on me as that's the last thing I care about. I just feel like half the stuff he sings about anyway aren't really anything I care about either. So yeah the guitarist is pretty alright and the mix on the Queen is pretty great between the drums and bass. Don't get me wrong it's not all bad either - it's just a drag to listen to for me. And you'll probably even think less of me when I say How Soon is Now? is their best song because you probably think I haven't listened to their entire discography desperately trying to understand why this band is rated so highly when I think so poorly of them. Probably 5-8 songs of theirs I'd choose to listen to (which isn't even a full album) with pleasure. The rest is near pain for me.

That's true. Although I think some songs escape this description. These are songs where the music equally drives the song, such as :
Please Please Please Let Me Get What I Want
Barbarism Begins at Home
I Know it's Over
How Soon is Now
Panic
Shoplifters of The world Unite
Stretch Out and Wait
Sweet and Tender Hooligan
Stop Me If You Think You've Heard This One Before (my favourite. And fantastic Mark Ronson cover by the way)
Death of a Disco Dancer

Also, you mentioned the mix. That's precisely the issue you're talking about: the vocal is too much ahead in the mix, given the relatively limited range of Morrissey. Except on Strangeways, but the production there is a bit bland, that's the other problem.

What are your '5-8 songs" you mentioned ?


Yeah for sure - I hope everyone realizes when I say these people don't belong in the top 40, I'm talking about THOUSANDS of artists... so no I'm not dogging on these artists like they are garbage, just not GREAT.

Ok so for funsies, here's my list of Smith's songs which I rated on this site of a 85 or higher... which could change over time... probably from 2016 when I needed to lock myself in a cage and hide from humanity and clicking song ratings over and over was a good distraction to reality much like others play video games and watch dumbass movies:

(in no particular order... although I already mentioned How Soon Is Now? is nothing like their other material (imo) and is easily their best song for me):

90+
There Is A Light That Never Goes Out
How Soon Is Now?
Bigmouth Strikes Again
The Boy With The Thorn In His Side
Cemetry Gates
What Difference Does It Make?
Nowhere Fast
Some Girls Are Bigger Than Others

85
The Queen Is Dead (Take Me Back To Dear Old Blighty (Medley))
Reel Around The Fountain
Death Of A Disco Dancer
Handsome Devil

As I go through those ratings, I notice that one big reason I can't do The Smiths is for every song I rate a 90+ I have a 60 or 70. GREAT artists have like one 60 or 70 for me and mediocre artists don't have consistent output. This is true for Oasis, too.

So maybe I'm just picky? Maybe the rest of you can look the other way at stuff like "Accept Yourself" and "Vicar In A Tutu" which back in 2016 I thought were kinda next to garbage (not extreme bad but even close to good).


Oh, so you are a Smiths connoisseur after all! From your initial post, I couldn't really tell ("I find this band insufferable") Surprised
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StefanR10



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  • #45
  • Posted: 05/23/2020 16:00
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Im maybe not agree with the most of the top 40 best artists of all time but i can give you my list of the top ten.

1. The Beatles
2. Led Zeppelin( because i like them very much)
3. Radiohead
4. Bob Dylan
5. David Bowie
6. James Brown
7. Nirvana
8. Black Sabbath
9. Deep Purple
10. Pink Floyd

I would say Eric Clapton has to become the top 100 artist but he is not in the top 100.


Last edited by StefanR10 on 05/25/2020 17:07; edited 1 time in total
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Hayden




Location: CDMX
Canada

  • #46
  • Posted: 05/23/2020 16:27
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After a slight comb-through of the top 1000, another few shocks...

Antônio Carlos Jobim at #993
Nat King Cole at #988
Silver Jews at #974
Louis Armstrong at #933.
Mum at #916.
Earth, Wind & Fire at #890

I should note Britney Spears is ahead of all of them, but that's not too bad really. What's bad is that so are Maroon 5 and Ed Sheeran Neutral ...and... *gulp*... Korn.


It's a little harder finder artists outside the top 1000, but—

Ravi Shankar
Max Roach
Oscar Peterson
Bill Fay
Django Reinhardt
William Onyeabor
Wes Montgomery
João Gilberto
Francoise Hardy
Bert Jansch
Lee Scratch Perry
Don Cherry
Hank Mobley
The Field Mice
Pete Rock & C.L. Smooth
Robbie Basho
Meredith Monk
Augustus Pablo
&
Glenn Gould

are not in our top 1000, and—

Archie Shepp
Virginia Astley
Juana Molina
&
Count Basie

are not in our top 2000 Crying or Very sad

If you haven't heard an album by someone up there, just... do it. Please. Especially Basie, that's the biggest shock for me.


EDIT: We have Mariah Carey in our top 500? Shocked
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RockyRaccoon
Is it solipsistic in here or is it just me?


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  • #47
  • Posted: 05/26/2020 12:07
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RoundTheBend wrote:


And yeah - John Entwistle is totally one of the greatest bassists of all time. He just plays with kinda boring vocalist (he comes across as a little weak compared to a McCartney or McJagger or Robert Plant of the "same" era)


Now that is quite the hot take. I'd say if you looked up lists of the greatest rock frontmen of all time, Roger Daltry would be on more lists than he isn't, and I think that's warranted. The guy had an incredibly powerful and unique voice (save for maybe Plant, I'm not sure many frontmen of the time could hit that scream towards the end of Won't Get Fooled Again) and massive stage presence.

I wish I could've seen The Who in their prime, because man could they put on a show. Daltry out there whipping around the microphone cord, Keith Moon drumming like a crazy person, Pete Townshend with his big windmill guitar hits, the band smashing things up at the end of the show. It's pure rock and roll, pure energy, and I think Daltry is a huge part of that. He and the rest of the band commanded the stage in a way that I think few rock bands ever have.
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StefanR10



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  • #48
  • Posted: 05/27/2020 15:10
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The best stage entertainer is for me Freddie Mercury and Robert Plant. David Bowie comes behind than Jimi Hendrix and then Pete Townsend with Roger Daltrey. Jimi Hendrix is the best guitarist of all time. And the best bass player for me is Jaco Pastorius.
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benfitzuk





  • #49
  • Posted: 05/28/2020 16:24
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Epic Epic Epic post idea, I agree that the way they rank artists is slightly flawed, like can The Stone Roses or Neutral Milk Hotel really be considered the best artists of all times with only one great album each? Not Sure
Heres my removals, and I also made some bold for artists who I think should be higher (even though being up in the top 100 alone is incredible so)
1. The Beatles
2. Radiohead
3. Pink Floyd
4. David Bowie
5. Bob Dylan
6. Led Zeppelin
7. Arcade Fire
8. The Rolling Stones (Are we really still claiming they have a single cohesive project (maybe bar Let it Bleed) they probably have a great 'Best of' Album but they did not release anything above an Cool
9. The Velvet Underground
10. Nirvana
11. The Smiths
12. Kendrick Lamar
13. Neil Young
14. Pixies
15. The Beach Boys
16. Miles Davis
17. Kanye West
18. Bruce Springsteen (He is the musical equivalent of plain rice like how can you make such boring and uninteresting music)
19. The Who (Being the loudest band is not in any way an achievement)
20. R.E.M. (I don't think their music aged incredibly well, and you can't even blame that on the fact that its jangle pop because the Smiths still slap)
21. U2 (Don't ever come into my house and claim U2 has ever written or composed anything listenable what a trash band. Achtung Baby is a 5/10)
22. The Clash (London Calling is great, and S/T is quite good as well, but they released some stinkers (e.g every other project))
23. Jimi Hendrix
24. The Doors (S/T left me underwhelmed to be honest, even though there was a few songs that I would consider all time rock greats, I think in terms of their discography there's no stand outs)
25. Talking Heads
26. King Crimson
27. Sufjan Stevens
28. Neutral Milk Hotel (ITAOTS is possibly my favourite all time albums, so they would rank high on a personal list of mine, but on an objective list surely not, on Avery island is bad)
29. The Cure
30. The Strokes
31. Joy Division (Unknown Pleasures is brilliant, and Love Will Tear Us Apart slaps also, but Closer is wack, so that leaves their discography pretty lonely
32. Arctic Monkeys
33. The Smashing Pumpkins (See Joy Division and NMH except Siamese Dream)
34. My Bloody Valentine
35. Fleetwood Mac
36. Metallica
37. Black Sabbath
38. Oasis (Don't ever make me laugh again)
39. Weezer (Don't get the hype but hats off for leading the 'emo but won't admit it' revolution)
40. Genesis (See Bruce Springsteen)
41. The National (See Bruce Springsteen)
42. Nick Drake
43. Bjork
44. Coldplay (See Oasis)
45. Wilco (2000's indie music is hard to be enjoyed from a modern perspective as its such a rapidly changing genre)
46. Van Morrison (See Joy Division except Astral Weeks only)
47. Pearl Jam (I guess Ten is fine but Pearl Jam is uninteresting
48. Tom Waits
49. Sonic Youth
50. Muse (See Oasis)

I removed 19 Albums out of 50, so the next 19 highest ranking artists that I would have in the top 50 would be
1. Tame Impala (52)
2. Prince (53)
3. John Coltrane (56)
4. Kate Bush (57) (Possibly my number 1)
5. Stevie Wonder (62)
6. LCD Soundsystem (6Cool
7. Godspeed You! Black Emperor (69)
8. Joni Mitchell (70)
9. The White Stripes ((74)
10. Frank Zappa (75)
11. Beach House (77)
12. Charles Mingus (79)
13. Interpol (89)
14. Elliott Smith (90)
15. Can (91)
16. Belle & Sebastian (99)
17. Brian Eno (101)
18. Nine Inch Nails (102)
19. Swans (103)

I dont think any of them have any (or many) bad albums
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baystateoftheart
Neil Young as a butternut squash



Age: 25
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  • #50
  • Posted: 05/28/2020 22:11
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benfitzuk wrote:

28. Neutral Milk Hotel (ITAOTS is possibly my favourite all time albums, so they would rank high on a personal list of mine, but on an objective list surely not, on Avery island is bad)


No such thing as an objective list. Any list you make is your personal list, no matter how much you say otherwise. What don't you like about On Avery Island?
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