Nationality of artists

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RasmV




Denmark

  • #1
  • Posted: 07/30/2020 12:33
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So I guess it has been discussed before, but I just saw Arcade Fire has been changed to "Mixed Nationality".

It is a Canadian band, however, with individuals from other countries (US). But how many bands all-around the world wouldn't be mixed then? There are SO many bands with members from different countries, yet the nationality of the band can still be specific and not mixed. Right?

I believe most artists can be assigned a single nationality - also Arcade Fire.
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Hayden




Location: CDMX
Canada

  • #2
  • Posted: 07/30/2020 15:15
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I think I'm getting confused with the membership category. Are bands considered collaborations?




I've changed Arcade Fire back to being Canadian. If Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds are Australian and Fleetwood Mac are British, Arcade Fire are Canadian Laughing. We claim them.

I admit, our nationality feature gets muddled and confusing at times, but we eventually make a consensus. Most 'big' Canadian musicians and celebrities are American citizens for tax reasons and whatnot, but that doesn't make it their nationality. I think Alanis Morissette, Joni Mitchell, Drake, Buffy Sainte-Marie, Justin Bieber, Feist, Leonard Cohen, Celine Dion, Neil Young, etc... are all Canadian through and through, despite American passports tucked away somewhere.
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craola
crayon master



Location: pdx
United States

  • #3
  • Posted: 07/30/2020 16:16
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Hayden wrote:
I think I'm getting confused with the membership category. Are bands considered collaborations?

I've been assuming they're "individuals" for the sake of tagging. A collaboration, I assume, is when two or more individual artists team up on something (e.g. Jenny Hval & Susanna on Meshes of Voice). I feel like it makes more sense with the jazz and classical albums than your average pop/rock/hip-hop/whatever albums. I could be wrong though.
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baystateoftheart
Neil Young as a butternut squash



Age: 27
Location: Massachusetts
United States

  • #4
  • Posted: 07/30/2020 16:22
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Hayden wrote:
I think I'm getting confused with the membership category. Are bands considered collaborations?

I've changed Arcade Fire back to being Canadian. If Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds are Australian and Fleetwood Mac are British, Arcade Fire are Canadian Laughing. We claim them.

I admit, our nationality feature gets muddled and confusing at times, but we eventually make a consensus. Most 'big' Canadian musicians and celebrities are American citizens for tax reasons and whatnot, but that doesn't make it their nationality. I think Alanis Morissette, Joni Mitchell, Drake, Buffy Sainte-Marie, Justin Bieber, Feist, Leonard Cohen, Celine Dion, Neil Young, etc... are all Canadian through and through, despite American passports tucked away somewhere.


Bands are collaborations. The guidelines give The Beatles as an example of a collaboration.

And you can argue with the site rules, but Arcade Fire is clearly mixed nationality under them, so I'd appreciate if you didn't revert my edits based on what you feel the site rules should be.

It has nothing to do with tax status or citizenship - it's based on where musicians were born and raised to adulthood.
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Hayden




Location: CDMX
Canada

  • #5
  • Posted: 07/30/2020 16:53
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craola wrote:
I've been assuming they're "individuals" for the sake of tagging. A collaboration, I assume, is when two or more individual artists team up on something (e.g. Jenny Hval & Susanna on Meshes of Voice). I feel like it makes more sense with the jazz and classical albums than your average pop/rock/hip-hop/whatever albums. I could be wrong though.


That's what I've been doing too (for the same reasoning), but—

Quote:
Bands are collaborations. The guidelines give The Beatles as an example of a collaboration.


—we may have been doing it wrong Neutral

Might need some clarification from AM on this.


Quote:
It has nothing to do with tax status or citizenship - it's based on where musicians were born and raised to adulthood.


Fair enough, that was a bit more of a side-argument, but Arcade Fire as a band are Canadian. The Butler brothers are American for sure, but it's still a Montreal-based group with mainly Canadian members. I don't think mixed nationality is a stretch, but it's certainly a push. While they've never considered themselves an 'American' or 'International' band, I can't seem to find any actual written word that they consider themselves Canadian either Think

I guess we'll just see what others think. AM was adimant on Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds being Australian, but that was more of a band-leader reasoning. Fleetwood Mac is def a UK/USA band, but we've settled with UK for the time being as well.
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Jameth




United States

  • #6
  • Posted: 07/30/2020 18:29
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Why not use the predominant nationality in cases like this? Or let an artist fly two flags? The mixed nationality tag doesn’t convey anything meaningful and diminishes stats and search results pertaining to a given country.
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Spyglass
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Gender: Male
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United States

  • #7
  • Posted: 07/31/2020 00:30
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Then we should reclassify this. I thought "collaboration" was used for acts made up of multiple acts, not persons. We should just change "collaboration" to "band" instead because "collaboration" has an actual meaning in the music world. Collaborations directy refer to two acts making music together, not bands or groups.

The approach should just be to retitle "collaboration" to either "band" or "group," and have a separate "collaboration" section for two existing acts working together without an official act name, like Robert Plant and Allison Krauss.
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Hayden




Location: CDMX
Canada

  • #8
  • Posted: 07/31/2020 00:41
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Jameth wrote:
Or let an artist fly two flags? The mixed nationality tag doesn’t convey anything meaningful and diminishes stats and search results pertaining to a given country.


If there's any easy way to code this in, I think it would be a fantastic idea. You're right.


Quote:
Then we should reclassify this. I thought "collaboration" was used for acts made up of multiple acts, not persons. We should just change "collaboration" to "band" instead because "collaboration" has an actual meaning in the music world. Collaborations directy refer to two acts making music together, not bands or groups.


Definitely need some clarification. AM has been putting 'collaboration' for bands, but that is a little... odd. I'm not sure I see the point or what it does. I figured collaboration would be for an album like this:


Domingo by Caetano Veloso & Gal Costa

Which would then be linked to both Veloso and Costa's individual artist pages, but that doesn't seem to be the reason.

I don't consider The Rolling Stones a collaboration.
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Romanelli
Bone Swah


Gender: Male
Location: The Spokane Valley
United States
Moderator

  • #9
  • Posted: 07/31/2020 12:07
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baystateoftheart wrote:
Hayden wrote:
I think I'm getting confused with the membership category. Are bands considered collaborations?

I've changed Arcade Fire back to being Canadian. If Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds are Australian and Fleetwood Mac are British, Arcade Fire are Canadian Laughing. We claim them.

I admit, our nationality feature gets muddled and confusing at times, but we eventually make a consensus. Most 'big' Canadian musicians and celebrities are American citizens for tax reasons and whatnot, but that doesn't make it their nationality. I think Alanis Morissette, Joni Mitchell, Drake, Buffy Sainte-Marie, Justin Bieber, Feist, Leonard Cohen, Celine Dion, Neil Young, etc... are all Canadian through and through, despite American passports tucked away somewhere.


Bands are collaborations. The guidelines give The Beatles as an example of a collaboration.

And you can argue with the site rules, but Arcade Fire is clearly mixed nationality under them, so I'd appreciate if you didn't revert my edits based on what you feel the site rules should be.

It has nothing to do with tax status or citizenship - it's based on where musicians were born and raised to adulthood.



Quote:
"I think that makes Arcade Fire mixed nationality"



If your edits are incorrect, they will most certainly be reverted. Your change of the Arcade Fire nationality was based on, in your words, what you think. Hardly fair for you to chastise others for doing exactly what you did there. Right?

I would say that if there is an issue with determining a band nationality or a question as to which is right or wrong (Arcade Fire would be a great example of this), that maybe we have a way to flag an artist so that it can be reviewed by the site admin. This would be a much better solution than simply switching it back and forth at will.
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craola
crayon master



Location: pdx
United States

  • #10
  • Posted: 07/31/2020 17:37
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for mixed nationalities, would it be worthwhile to list them and choose a primary country?

guillemots (mixed/uk)
- united kingdom (est)
- scotland
- canada
- brazil

---

i agree with above comments about splitting out collaboration somewhat because hayden's example is what i thought, and i likewise don't think the rolling stones are a collaboration. they're a band. maybe split into individual, band, and collaboration with the latter two linking to the individuals (if relevant):

charles mingus (individual)

the beatles (band)
- john lennon
- paul mccartney
- george harrison
- ringo starr

u2 (band)

jenny hval & susanna (collaboration)
- jenny hval (individual)
- susanna (individual)

olivier messiaen, yvonne loriod; jeanne loriod; orchestre national de la r.t.f., maurice le roux (collaboration)
- olivier messiaen (individual)
- yvonne loriod (individual)
- jeanne loriod (individual)
- orchestre national de la r.t.f. (individual)
- maurice le roux (individual)

---

from a moderation standpoint, even with the additional info, adding artists is (a) less frequent than albums and (b) less cumbersome than albums, so i don't think it would be asking too much of users to supplement this data.
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