Best Year in Hip-Hop Tournament (format and rules) - Games

Skinny
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Thanks for the interest shown already in this tournament. I am going to try to set out the format and rules for the upcoming tournament as succinctly as possible.

There will be 16 nominations. Each user nominates a single year (e.g. 1994, or 2018). The 16 years will then be split into four separate groups, each containing four years.

Within each group, each year will have a match against each other year once, much like in the football World Cup. For each match, the user must choose 2 albums and 2 singles to represent their year. In each match during the group stage, the user must pick unique album and single representatives; i.e. the user who picks 1994 cannot use Illmatic in each match, but rather just once, against one opponent. This means that each user must choose 6 albums and 6 singles for the group stage, and then strategically pick which albums and singles to use depending on their opponent. The winner of each match will receive 2 points, while a tie/draw will result in the points being shared, 1 point each. The winner of the group after each year has played/fought one another will then go through to a semi-final stage.

I'll explain the semi-final stage later. Are there currently any concerns/questions regarding how the group stage will work?

UPDATE:

LedZep wrote:

A few questions.

Can we nominate EPs as an "album"? And hypothetically, if I nominate an EP that has most of the songs that were later released on an actual album, would people vote against that out of principle?

Are only official singles (those listed on RYM) eligible, or can we nominate any song from an album released in our year?

What about that rule "only singles released 1 year before/after the album"? Is that an official rule or just an idea? 'Cause it turns out Bonita Applebum / I Left My Wallet in El Segundo and Check the Rhime / Award Tour were released as singles in 1997 and I'm tempted to use them, even though it feels weird and people would probably give me hard time for that.

Skinny, when we choose 10 + 10 do we PM those to you? Edit: it's in the original post

Yes, you can nominate an EP in lieu of an album. If said EP contains tracks that are later released on an album from a different year, two different users would be able to theoretically select two very similar releases, I guess. Do you have an example of this to put it into context for me?

Only tracks that are released as singles can be selected, but there is some wiggle room here. For example, if it has a music video, it's a single for the purposes of this tournament, regardless of whether or not it had an official single release. However, you cannot just choose an album track as a single. If you have any concerns about particular songs, PM me and I'll let you know whether it's eligible.

In order to be eligible, a single must not be released any later than the year following the release of its parent album. For example, the user with 1997 can nominate a single from an album released in 1996 (provided it was released as a single in 1997, obviously), but they cannot nominate a single from an album released in 1995 or earlier (regardless of whether it was released as a single in 1997 or not). Any concerns about this, just let me know. For example, remixes which alter the original in some way and that were released as standalone singles should be fine, but again I can moderate this on a case by case basis.

In answer to a previous query, users cannot nominate an album and also a single from that album for their team. For example (using my choice), I cannot pick both 'Still D.R.E.' (the single) and 2001 (the album) by Dr. Dre, even in separate matches. I have to decide whether I want to use the single or the album.

I really hope all of that makes sense, but again please feel free to PM me with any specific queries about the eligibility of a release.

OK, as promised earlier in the week, here's an update on the format:

Years will be split into four groups, each containing four years. (I will split the groups so as to allow for the greatest variety of eras in each group.) Each year will face each other year in their group once, meaning that each year will play a total of three matches in the group phase. For each matchup, the user has to choose two albums and two singles to represent their year. You cannot re-use these albums in multiple group stage matches. Therefore, for the group stage, each user will have to nominate six unique albums and six unique singles to represent their chosen year. (Users should send their nominations to me, unless you are in the same group as me, in which case they will need to be sent to the tournament co-host [TBC; volunteers welcome].)

The top two teams in each group will proceed to the quarter finals. Any two teams with the same amount of points will be separated based on their head-to-head record. (For example, if 1996 and 2014 finished joint second in their group, the year which won the 1996 vs. 2014 matchup would progress.) If the match resulted in a tie/draw, there will be a one album/one single tie-breaker matchup, using one album and one single from your six group stage picks. The team who finish top of their group table will face a team who finish second in another group in the quarter-final phase.

For the quarter-finals, users will nominate four albums and four singles for a matchup against another year. Two albums and two singles can be recycled from a user's group stage picks, whilst two albums and two singles must be previously unused and therefore new to the tournament. The winners of their quarter-final matchup will then proceed to the semi-final.

In the semi-final, users will nominate five albums and five singles. None of these picks are allowed to be recycled from the quarter-final picks. Three albums and three singles are to be recycled from a year's remaining (four) group stage picks, whilst two albums and two singles must be previously unused and therefore new to the tournament. The winners of their semi-final matchup will then proceed to the final, whilst the losers will proceed to a third-place playoff.

In both the final and the third-place playoff, users will nominate twelve albums and twelve singles. Ten albums and ten singles will be the nominations used throughout the tournament at various stages, whilst two albums and two singles must be previously unused and therefore new to the tournament.

I should clarify that I am not trying to stifle variety. The number of recycled releases to be used in the knockout stages (two albums and two singles in the quarter-finals; three each in the semi-finals; ten each in the final/third-place playoff) are a maximum allowance. (i.e. A user can pick four previously unused albums in the quarter-final if they want to, although it is not encouraged.) If users want to use more than twelve albums and singles throughout the tournament, they can, but I would encourage both players and voters to prioritise quality over quantity.

I hope this all makes sense to everybody. Please feel free to voice any concerns or ideas, and I will endeavour to provide clarification on anything that doesn't make sense.

Also, let me know if you fancy co-hosting and actually have the time and motivation to do so.

Hope everybody is looking forward to the tourney! Get exploring your chosen years, people!

Peace.

Last edited by Skinny on 12/13/2020 12:46; edited 4 times in total

Mercury
Turn your back on the pay-you-back last call

Gender: Male
Location: St. Louis

No questions from me. But I do wanna say this looks awesome and can’t wait for it.

That year tournament a few years back was amazing! This more narrow focused approach to the same basic thing is super enticing. If this is a success I hope we do more going forward.
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baystateoftheart
Neil Young as a butternut squash

Age: 29
Location: Massachusetts

So for the group stage alone, everyone participating will have to listen to 96 albums and 96 singles. Regardless of the amount of time given, that's too much for a tournament in my opinion. How about pairing it back to 1 album and 1 single per match?

My other questions are:

1. Do the subsequent stages involve additional albums and singles?
2. Can albums and singles overlap? For example, could someone nominating 1994 use Illmatic and its four singles that were released that year? And could someone else nominating 1992 use Half Time?
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Skinny
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baystateoftheart wrote:

So for the group stage alone, everyone participating will have to listen to 96 albums and 96 singles. Regardless of the amount of time given, that's too much for a tournament in my opinion. How about pairing it back to 1 album and 1 single per match?

My other questions are:

1. Do the subsequent stages involve additional albums and singles?
2. Can albums and singles overlap? For example, could someone nominating 1994 use Illmatic and its four singles that were released that year? And could someone else nominating 1992 use Half Time?

In response to your concern, the idea is to give each matchup ample time for users to listen to and subsequently vote for their favourites. I'm happy for the tournament to take place over ~four/five months, if necessary. My initial thought was to start off with 8 matches running concurrently for a month/six weeks, meaning that users are given a month/six weeks in which to listen to and vote for 32 albums + 32 singles. My guess is that many of the albums will already be familiar to many of the listeners, so whilst it may sound like a mammoth undertaking, it should actually be pretty manageable. I've also considered putting the matchups up without polls for the first week or so, and adding polls after that to ensure that people engage with the game properly. I'm very reticent to reduce the number, because I'm less interested in straight shootouts, though I take the concerns on board.

As for the questions:

1) I'll explain later, but any later additions will be relatively minimal and only there to supplement the main 6 choices.
2a) Overlaps will be allowed. Voters can decide on whether they are used 'in the spirit of the game', so to speak.
2b) I'm gonna use RYM release dates. A competitor from one year will be able to nominate a single which happens to appear on an album that a competitor from another year has nominated. Again, I'll leave it up to voters to decide their opinions on this.
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19loveless91
mag. druž. inf

baystateoftheart wrote:

So for the group stage alone, everyone participating will have to listen to 96 albums and 96 singles. Regardless of the amount of time given, that's too much for a tournament in my opinion. How about pairing it back to 1 album and 1 single per match?

My other questions are:

1. Do the subsequent stages involve additional albums and singles?
2. Can albums and singles overlap? For example, could someone nominating 1994 use Illmatic and its four singles that were released that year? And could someone else nominating 1992 use Half Time?

Well... I assume most people will still use well known albums, so 96 is a bit of a stretch. IMO 2+2 is fine

IIRC in the old year tourney you had to create bigger teams in the later stages, but I can't remember if we had to use new albums and singles. I think to avoid repetition it would be cool to add, say, 1 new album/single in each of the later stages. But let Skinny say how he imagined this.

I imagine it's hard to make a rule against reusing singles from the albums, but IMO that makes for a bad team, and I'd consider voting against it just because of that. Not sure how others feel about it

baystateoftheart
Neil Young as a butternut squash

Age: 29
Location: Massachusetts

It's a reasonable expectation for people to revisit and not to rely on years-old memories when voting in a tournament, so I don't think 96 is a stretch.

If you can find 16 people willing to commit to listen to 192 releases over 4-5 months, more power to you. It just seems like a tall order to me, and if one person goes M.I.A. partway through, that throws things off, unless you have users submit all their picks in advance.
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Skinny
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baystateoftheart wrote:

It's a reasonable expectation for people to revisit and not to rely on years-old memories when voting in a tournament, so I don't think 96 is a stretch.

If you can find 16 people willing to commit to listen to 192 releases over 4-5 months, more power to you. It just seems like a tall order to me, and if one person goes M.I.A. partway through, that throws things off, unless you have users submit all their picks in advance.

I understand your concerns. I have already thought about users going MIA, and if that were to happen I would simply offer up their year to somebody else. We're all friends here.

I'm not saying this will be a huge success, but I think it's an idea worth pursuing. If it fails, then it's on me.

"Oh, Icarus, fly not too near the sun lest thy waxy wings should melt."
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Hayden

Location: CDMX

I'm down.

Might take a sec to pick a year though.

19loveless91
mag. druž. inf

In the year tourney we're mentioning, we had 4+4 teams (and more in the later stages), and it worked out fine. In another tourney where we had teams (cities competition) I think we may have had more than that. I'm sure some people will be willing to all nominated albums in their entirety, but most won't. It's also no tragedy to not vote in a match, where you're unfamiliar with the picks and don't have time to catch up.

As far as captains going missing, it is an issue for sure... In the old tourney we had co-captains (or just other people jumping in if anyone quit), but I think it would also be helpful if captains gave Skinny their initial (6+6) nominations. So in case anyone goes missing, Skinny chooses 2+2 at random.

Experience with these tourneys also shows that Skinny will need a backup as a showrunner. At some point in BEA history we hit a stretch where most people running these tourneys would go AWOL.

Skinny
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19loveless91 wrote:

In the year tourney we're mentioning, we had 4+4 teams (and more in the later stages), and it worked out fine. In another tourney where we had teams (cities competition) I think we may have had more than that. I'm sure some people will be willing to all nominated albums in their entirety, but most won't. It's also no tragedy to not vote in a match, where you're unfamiliar with the picks and don't have time to catch up.

As far as captains going missing, it is an issue for sure... In the old tourney we had co-captains (or just other people jumping in if anyone quit), but I think it would also be helpful if captains gave Skinny their initial (6+6) nominations. So in case anyone goes missing, Skinny chooses 2+2 at random.

Experience with these tourneys also shows that Skinny will need a backup as a showrunner. At some point in BEA history we hit a stretch where most people running these tourneys would go AWOL.

This is a very good point. My intention is obviously to see this through, but if anybody fancies helping with the running of the tournament then please let me know.
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