Objectivity of rating in communities

Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic
Author Message
musicoed



Gender: Male
Location: SPb
Russia

  • #1
  • Posted: 01/15/2021 15:25
  • Post subject: Objectivity of rating in communities
  • Reply with quote
I am interested in the question of the objectivity of the rating. There are always doubts about the impartiality of music publications. One music lover's score may depend on various circumstances. On the other hand, in large communities, any fluctuations are usually smoothed out.

Here's how communities voted last year for The Slow Rush by Tame Impala:

This album received the highest number of support votes in the Indieheads community - 10.2 k (95%).
In the BEA community - # 7 out of 3.000 (486 votes).
The album took # 188 in the AOTY community (Liked by 120 people).
In the RYM community, the album took - # 1060 place (8,713 ratings).

One would assume that RYM has always disliked this group. But the album Lonerism (2012) still takes an honorable place there - # 9.
What happened user preferences last year?

P.S. Community Discussion:
LetsTalkMusic (Indieheads) - this post has been removed by the moderators
AOTY
RYM
_________________
I'm using a translation program / 2018 / 2019 / 2020


Last edited by musicoed on 01/21/2021 17:53; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
Streams





  • #2
  • Posted: 01/15/2021 16:04
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
There's nothing impartial about it. For any for-profit publication, marketing, promotion, and reviews are more often bought than not. The content of reviews and their ratings are edited to fit the brand of the publication. User-based sites are biased by the ubiquity of the music involved in this process, which is elevated by accessibility in listening when monetary backing can center recordings on widespread corporate platforms like spotify, apple, youtube, etc. None of this indicates the quality of the music, just a process that canonizes products via heightened visibility.
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
Skinny
birdman_handrub.gif




  • #3
  • Posted: 01/15/2021 16:57
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
Streams wrote:
There's nothing impartial about it. For any for-profit publication, marketing, promotion, and reviews are more often bought than not. The content of reviews and their ratings are edited to fit the brand of the publication. User-based sites are biased by the ubiquity of the music involved in this process, which is elevated by accessibility in listening when monetary backing can center recordings on widespread corporate platforms like spotify, apple, youtube, etc. None of this indicates the quality of the music, just a process that canonizes products via heightened visibility.


Jay-Z still slaps, mind.
_________________
2021 in full effect. Come drop me some recs. Y'all know what I like.
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
19loveless91
mag. druž. inf



Slovenia

  • #4
  • Posted: 01/15/2021 20:36
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
Well, to actually answer OP's question - those sites just calculate rankings differently. BEA (presumably indieheads as well) are mostly popularity based. Meaning, the more charts an albums appears on BEA, the higher the rank. So logically it follows that the most hyped bands and albums (eg. Tame Impala) will be higher on BEA - more people listening to it = more charts (even if on average the users don't like the album all that much).

RYM ranks albums according to average rating (sort of, they have their own algorithm that also accounts for number of ratings, ie. popularity). An album by a popular artist will have many ratings, but the number of listeners doesn't matter so much. So if it doesn't get a good critical reception (The Slow Rush had a decent reception, but not as good as Lonerism or Currents), it will have a negative impact on the ratings. Also, I think if fans of the artist's previous work will find the new album to be worse, it may result in a disproportionally lower rating average (vs. if the same album was released by an unknown artist with only a few listeners).

There are also of course some minor differences among the communities, but I can't really begin to guess what they would be.
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
Skinny
birdman_handrub.gif




  • #5
  • Posted: 01/15/2021 20:50
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
19loveless91 wrote:
Well, to actually answer OP's question - those sites just calculate rankings differently. BEA (presumably indieheads as well) are mostly popularity based. Meaning, the more charts an albums appears on BEA, the higher the rank. So logically it follows that the most hyped bands and albums (eg. Tame Impala) will be higher on BEA - more people listening to it = more charts (even if on average the users don't like the album all that much).

RYM ranks albums according to average rating (sort of, they have their own algorithm that also accounts for number of ratings, ie. popularity). An album by a popular artist will have many ratings, but the number of listeners doesn't matter so much. So if it doesn't get a good critical reception (The Slow Rush had a decent reception, but not as good as Lonerism or Currents), it will have a negative impact on the ratings. Also, I think if fans of the artist's previous work will find the new album to be worse, it may result in a disproportionally lower rating average (vs. if the same album was released by an unknown artist with only a few listeners).

There are also of course some minor differences among the communities, but I can't really begin to guess what they would be.


Jay-Z still slaps, mind.
_________________
2021 in full effect. Come drop me some recs. Y'all know what I like.
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
Applerill
Autistic Princess <3


Gender: Female
Age: 30
Location: Chicago
United States

  • #6
  • Posted: 01/16/2021 03:28
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
Darn, I haven’t thought about Poe in a really long time. I’ll admit I prefer

Naon Margina by Itoh Masyitoh & Group Rineka Swara

More than most Jay Z, though :/
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad



Location: Ground Control
United States

  • #7
  • Posted: 01/16/2021 07:44
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
Now I know when Skinny is drunk.

I find algorithm changes annoying too. Like, well if a user isn't constantly online, we don't value their ratings/rankings as much anymore. I think that's dumb.

But yeah those numbers are indeed drastically different, eh? So that is interesting.

I suppose in the end what matters most is if you like it. I'm not a fan of these sites because I like their rankings, rather something to manage my music addictions and to chat with the fine folks here.

Data is fun, but it's kinda a weird juxtaposition of art and science. It overlaps kinda, but not really. So take it all with a grain of salt as they say. Tomorrow they will change the algorithm and ALL top 10k albums will be OK Computer. Laughing
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
musicoed



Gender: Male
Location: SPb
Russia

  • #8
  • Posted: 01/16/2021 11:17
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
Streams wrote:
There's nothing impartial about it. … which is elevated by accessibility in listening when monetary backing can center recordings on widespread corporate platforms like spotify, apple, youtube, etc.

I like the way you think. But these communities are in the same information space. The "listening accessibility" is the same, but the ratings are opposite.

Streams wrote:
None of this indicates the quality of the music, just a process that canonizes products via heightened visibility.

Unfortunately, "heightened visibility" tells me too much about the quality of the music.))
_________________
I'm using a translation program / 2018 / 2019 / 2020
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
musicoed



Gender: Male
Location: SPb
Russia

  • #9
  • Posted: 01/16/2021 12:05
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
19loveless91 wrote:
… - those sites just calculate rankings differently.

It might work if we were talking about a gap of tens or even hundreds, but not 1000.

19loveless91 wrote:
… Also, I think if fans of the artist's previous work will find the new album to be worse, it may result in a disproportionally lower rating average ...

Maybe this is a reason to vote against the album, but not against the band. And this applies equally to all music lovers, all communities.

19loveless91 wrote:
… (vs. if the same album was released by an unknown artist with only a few listeners).

Here I cannot agree. With a small number of fans, any abnormal voice can change the result. To drive the release of stars into the basement, thousands must abnormally vote.
_________________
I'm using a translation program / 2018 / 2019 / 2020
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
musicoed



Gender: Male
Location: SPb
Russia

  • #10
  • Posted: 01/16/2021 14:09
  • Post subject:
  • Reply with quote
RoundTheBend wrote:
… I suppose in the end what matters most is if you like it ...

I don't want to blame anyone or dig into the real reasons. I am not a supporter of extremes at all. One and the same music cannot be liked by everyone and equally. Most people will never like experimentation. But even for educational purposes, you should not use forgery.
I just see a trend. It is becoming more and more difficult to find interesting music for yourself. There are more and more obstacles on the way to this. For some reason, it seems to me that these things are interconnected.

RoundTheBend wrote:
Data is fun, but it's kinda a weird juxtaposition of art and science. It overlaps kinda, but not really. So take it all with a grain of salt as they say…

In my opinion, if something will save the world, it will be information.))
_________________
I'm using a translation program / 2018 / 2019 / 2020
Back to top
  • Visit poster's website
  • View user's profile
  • Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2


 

Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Similar Topics
Topic Author Forum
Elo Rating StefanR10 Suggestions
Add a rating. Smithy98 Suggestions
[Rating ignored] RFNAPLES Suggestions
Rating something 0 out of 100 SD100852 Suggestions
What is your rating curve? Pavement415 Music

 
Back to Top