BYHH GW2: Group D - 2000 vs. 2006

[Tha1ChiefRocka]

Totally agree with all of your analyses Skinny. Thanks for articulating the value of this particular E40 album. It's an album that just puts me in a great mood.

BTW, I did apologize to you when I nominated Uffie. (if that counts for anything)

[19loveless91]

[LedZep]

Pop the Glock is something that'd sound futuristic and hip in 2006, in the early 2010s it would sound almost prophetic since that was the first peak of meme culture. In 2021 it sounds like an outdated troll face meme, it's only fun if it's dripping in irony. What will it be in 2031? A fossil? It's just the kind of music that sounds worse and worse as the years go by, unless you're super nostalgic. Which I'm not, this was before my time. Right now it's not exactly hot garbage, but it's not a good song either. Appreciate the pick though, it's a good laugh and a piece of pop history which I was unaware of.

This all made me think of 100 Gecs, how long before that's outdated? Maybe they inspire a huge movement that brings the Soundcloud sounds into the mainstream and they stay relevant as long as their disciples stay relevant. We have the Soundcloud scene, now waiting for Taylor Swift + Gecs collab.
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Finally updated the overall chart

2020s
90s

[Repo]

[travelful]

Albums:

1. Fishscale
2. Masters of the Universe
3. My Ghetto Report Card
4. Stankonia

Singles:
1. Big Pimpin'
2. Vans
3. Ride Wit Me
4. Pop the Glock


This is where I'm at and leaning towards 2000.

Stankonia is last, but only because I wish they would have cut the filler (if they did it could easily challenge Aquemini as Outkast's best). I pretty much never play the album because of it. Masters Of The Universe and My Ghetto Report Card could have also been trimmed down a bit to their benefit, but they don't drag on quite as much as Stankonia does for me. With that said, much of this matchups best tracks are on Stankonia which is making me lean towards 2000, especially when considering the singles. Big Pimpin' is easily the best track here but Vans surprised me, I really fucked with it right away. Rid Wit Me is a nice track but not a favorite of mine. Pop the Glock wasn't my thing at all.

[kokkinos]

Last matchup of the second round-this one really flew by, joining this tournament proved to be a fantastic decision. So, let me start with OutKast - Stankonia. To be honest, I was surprised most of you ranked it at the bottom - or near it - in comparison to the rest of the albums here. I understand that this came after ATLiens and Aquemini, meaning that the expectations were sky-high, but I wouldn't expect them to release anything better than that. Shockingly enough, this is my favorite OutKast album. If the rest of their discography was exactly as it is and this album was missing, I would definitely rank them one level lower than I do now. Some of the main criticisms are consistency and length. The former does hold some - or even a lot - true. The lows could very well be their lowest so far. On the other hand, the highs have a strong case for being their highest - or at the very least pretty close to it. When you listen to the album as a whole, I find that the highs easily overshadow the lows. The length argument is one I don't get - unless you combine it with the incosistency argument, but it doesn't add anything new to the discussion, I can't see what difference it would make if it were shorter but still inconsistent. Hip hop albums in general do have a tendency for being on the longer end of the spectrum, not to mention that, after all, it's shorter than Aquemini. The production makes the album what it is. It manages to be challenging/experimental, but also poppy/catchy at the same time, it offers something to everyone. Lyrics and rapping - while by no means bad or anything, I mean how could they possibly be- do take a step back to allow the majestic sound to shine brighter. Many highlights to choose from, I'm gonna avoid the super obvious ones and go with Humble Mumble("Life is like a great big roller coaster Everything in life don't always happen like it's supposed to Trials and tribulations make you stronger, live longer You wanna reach the nation nigga start from ya corner Everything don't always happen like you plan it Demand it; over stand it then you handle it Fuck wishing, you missing the ambition on your mission Now you switchin' Why you quittin' cause it's heated in the kitchen?").
To sum it up, I get its flaws, but they are excused because of its good -actually great- parts.
Next one is gonna be Binary Star - Masters of the Universe.

[kokkinos]

Binary Star - Masters of the Universe is an album I had loved for a (admittedly short) period of time, but had somehow totally forgotten its existence in the meantime, thanks to Repo for nominating it, this felt almost like a first listen. At that point, they were such a promising duo, it's a shame they didn't move on to even greater things. What I like the most about this album are the vibes it creates. It's like you are there as it happens, hanging around with them and having so much fun without a care in the world, there's no distance between the artist and the audience, he (they) is one of us. I associate this achievement mainly with the production - it understands that's what it does best and it doesn't pretend to be anything else, simple and effective - but the rapping is nothing short of fantastic (in the context I described above) as well. The intros that preceed some of the tracks-doesn't matter if they are separate tracks like in Solar Powered/Slang Blade/Binary Shuffle or incorporated in the "actual" song like in Indy 500 or Evolution of Man - are also a contributing factor, the spoken words create a friendly environment. I've never had a problem with an album being too long, but here it seems to be one of the cases the length actually works in its favor, you get to know them better and it keeps improving as time passes. Last but not least, the lyrics are also filled with great lines, a typical example is the first verse of the first track, one of the best ways to introduce yourself ("This is how I represent, I rock the mic 110 percent It's intimate, I keeps the party movin' like an immigrant Binary Star, superstar, it's no coincidence Every verse is intricate, this ain't a circus in a tent We don't get down like them clown and the kids I'm used to being indigent, who said it's all about the Benjamins? I want a fortune, I wanna make music and hit the lottery Fortunately, my music is never watery That's how it's gotta be as far as I can see Maybe you should grab a telescope to see my view, it's like astronomy It ain't all about economy So the fact that all these wack emcees is making G's don't bother me Honestly, my number one policy is quality Never sell my soul is my philosophy High velocity, lyrics like Nostrodamus makin' prophecy").
To sum it up, this more than holds its own againist Stankonia (maybe it's the excitement of randomly meeting a long lost friend, but at the moment I would go with this if I had to pick only one), which is no small feat.
Next one is gonna be E-40 - My Ghetto Report Card.

[babyBlueSedan]

My album rankings:

1. Fishscale: Pretty easily my favorite Ghostface record, I adore the beats and his storytelling is as good as ever. Supreme Clientele is amazing too of course but the production on this album just way better matches my personal preferences, and he sounds so good over it tracks like "Shakey Dog" where the dramatic beat perfectly matches his mile a minute flow. Other tracks I remember really liking are "Kilo" and the track that samples "Family Affair." The beats from DOOM really make you wonder what a full length DOOMSTARKS album could have sounded like.

2. Stankonia: Definitely agree that this one is overstuffed but when it hits, it hits. Listened to it recently and it was much better than I remembered, though there are still way too many skits that provide nothing of interest. Still, not only does it have "BOB" and "Ms Jackson" but also "Red Velvet," "Gasoline Dreams," and "So Fresh, So Clean" among others. Probably my third favorite Outkast since I could never really get into their debut.

3. E-40: I'm a little embarrassed that I had never heard an E-40 album before. Probably partially due to the fact he doesn't have a consensus classic album that everyone talks about. That said, I've always loved his guest verse on Schoolboy Q's Blank Face LP because of how unique his voice and flow were, and that's pretty much the case here too. Really charismatic, with some really funny lines. Also pretty crazy beats. Based off Skinny's write up it sounds like his other projects don't sound quite like this, guess I'll find out when I get to the 1999 match-up.

4. Masters of the Universe: This was a huge personal favorite back in the year I learned to love hip hop. But I was a newbie then and was mostly drawn to rap that I found palatable, and this underground conscious hip hop album was saying all the right things to draw me in. Over the years it really grew off me as I listened to more hip hop and learned to love more styles of it. I think the rapping is great, the production is pretty good, but it doesn't have all that much that's unique about it to really keep pulling me back in. kokkinos's write up did make me go back and relisten to "Reality Check," which used to be one of my absolute favorite hip hop songs, and while I quite enjoyed it as a nostalgia trip I must admit it's not quite as amazing as I used to think. Still, I remember there being some great moments on this - I liked "Wolfman Jack" and remember a lot of fun similes like "We get down like people in tornado drills." There's also one line where one of the MCs calls out gangsta rapper for not being hardcore that I loved. But of these four albums it's probably the one I'd be least likely to revisit; I'd rather get more into E-40's album that give this one another shot honestly.

So albums are tilting 2006, but I think the singles are going to tilt me back to 2000. Kind of similar to the 1994-2015 match-up, but in this case 2006 doesn't have a TPAB level album and I enjoy Binary Star much more than Digible Planets (I probably exaggerated my feelings for Binary Star above - I really do like the album, it just doesn't have much of what I want out of the genre these days). And those 2000 singles are just great. So 2000 feels like a more complete team to me.

Haven't heard that Uffie song before. It definitely feels ahead of its time - it sounds like it could have come out in ~2019 and not sounded out of place - but I can't say I enjoyed it much, just as I haven't been able to get into the recent music that it reminds me of.
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And it's hard to be a human being. And it's harder as anything else.

[kokkinos]

If I recall correctly (I 'm pretty sure I do) E-40 - My Ghetto Report Card happened to be the first of his albums that I listened to, so this is the sound I've associated him with the most. Simple yet super catchy ("I don't bump mainstream, I knock underground All that other shit, sugarcoated and watered down I'm from the Bay where we hyphy and go dumb From the soil where them rappers be getting their lingo from"), its feverish energy makes for a great party/club soundtrack, it puts you in the mood before you even notice . E-40 proves that he still has it, few rappers can match his presence behind the mic, instantly recognizable style, impossible to confuse him for someone else. The lyrics are defintely not the focus of the album, there are some cool/funny lines ("40 an ounce of space, ain't even had time to wash my face I been in the traffic tryin to get it, I ain't got time to fuckin waste My money's short like I'm slippin, I'm tryin to smack it up and flip it I'm tryin to turn this thousand dollars into a quarter of a mill' ticket Some of you suckers be lyin to kick it, but that ain't the fuckin way Niggaz be sellin mo' wolf tickets than fake autographs on eBay"), no particularly profound themes are being explored (mainly women and partying) and they can be embarassingly bad at times (simply check out Gimme Head) just don't take them seriously or ignore them and you' ll be fine. Now, unlike the two 2000 albums, for both of which there's a case to be made for being longer than they should but I didn't mind at all, in this case it totally felt like the album didn't justify its length, towards the end it started getting somewhat repetitive and made me lose interest, were it 10-15 minutes shorter and I can imagine rating this much higher. Tell Me When To Go was in my opinion the clear highlight of the album, almost a no-contest to be honest.
To sum it up, slightly flawed yet highly enjoyable, I would rank it behind both Stankonia and Masters of the Universe, but it has more to do with the fact that I really like both of them than with this.
Next one is gonna be Ghostface Killah - Fishscale.

[kokkinos]

So, last (but by no means least) album of this matchup is Ghostface Killah - Fishscale. At this point, despite having been the most consistent Wu member in terms of his solo albums, I don't know how many would expect to reach the levels of Supreme Clientele again. As far as I'm concerned, he managed to surpass it (admiteddly you could easily argue in favor of any of those two, both are great). The determining factor for me is clearly the production. He's moved on, providing us with a great variety of styles, but still carries his "hardcore" background with him, always keeping things in control and combining all the different elements into a cohesive and consistent album. It all starts -after the tone-setting intro/skit - with Shakey Dog ("Fasten your seatbelts, I'ma take y'all on some real shit"), a bombastic way to begin the album, he is already firing on all cylinders. Speaking of bombastic, you can't help but think of The Champ ("Took a fat nigga out in like 40 seconds My gun get hard wit a 45 steel erection Eagle on, Kangol half-slanted, Coconut Ballys from Morocco Guerilla medallions like Flavor Flav clock, yo Niggas want me dead but they scared to step to me Rip they guts out like a hysterectomy When beef collide look on the flip by the penitentiary kite Or get you bumped off from the inside"). Of course one of the biggest merits of this album is that it contains 9 Milli Bros. ("Official Wu-Tang headbanger"), which is a track that it's impossible to be objective with, it's simply huge. You also have -among many others - the short and sweet Beauty Jackson ("The ashes was hangin off her stog' so she flicked it Damn, had to bundle up, I caught goosebumps Plus the windchill factor had dropped, here the bus come I never rush one, here take my number miss I live alone, her face fell when I dropped the chrome Damn, can I have your number?"), we get to see a more sensitive side in Whip You With A Strap ("Get beat, then I'd run and tell grandman "mama hit me for no reason" She whipped me hard when I finished eatin And felt that belt stingin after I wet that bed Hid my drawers and start cryin, when she felt that bed Caught another when I told her those the fake pro-keds In the corner weavin and screamin trying to block my head") or Momma("All she needed was somebody to rub her feet Give her a nice hug and rescue her from off these streets"), the "take it slow" super-groovy soul/R&B-based Back Like That or Big Girl, the hectic Be Easy or Three Bricks. Not much to be said about rapping or lyrics, he puts on display his typical extremely high level once more. Another album on the longer end of the spectrum -which seems to be the theme of this matchup-, but the truth is hadn't I read it's actually more than an hour long, I wouldn't even have noticed, this feels like 40-45 minutes at most, you blink and it's over, it leaves you begging for some more.
To sum it up, it's close, but this has to take the nod as the best album of the matchup, meaning that it's pretty much equal so far and the outcome of this matchup is gonna be decided by the singles.