BYHH GW3: Group C - 2004 vs. 2017

[kokkinos]

I was pretty sure The College Dropout would receive mixed reactions, but I didn't expect Cam'ron to be such a hot topic of discussion. When I discovered this album - not 100% sure, but I 'm reasonably confident it was some time in early 2005 - I was excited mostly because it featured Kanye (I've already mentioned my views on him during the first round of the tournament, so there's no reason to repeat myself, you got the point, I really like him). After listening to it, it was the production that immediately attracted me, I wouldn't even pay that much attention to Cam'ron (even today my preferences are more production-oriented than rapping-oriented, but back then it was even more striking). The moment I started noticing him was after deciding to check the rest of his discography - both solo and Dipset. I can definitely see why you would consider him one of the greats. Given the right production he would shine, but in most cases I 've had some difficulties keeping up with him over the course of a whole album (to be fair, I can't think of many rappers that can carry an entire album lacking in the production department). And of course I massively respect him for doing his thing and playing the game by his own rules (that's another reason apart from the obvious ones that Purple Haze fits nicely next to The College Dropout).

[travelful]

One of my favorite match-ups so far. I am also a huge Kanye West fan so naturally the 2004 team is among my favorite in the tournament so far however the 2017 team still holds its own. The College Dropout at first glace seems like the obvious heavy hitter but as time goes on my opinion on Flower Boy just gets high and higher and honestly they're about neck and neck for me now. Both Purple Haze and BFT are about equal for me too although I have more of a softspot for Cam'ron than I do Vince Staples even is BFT is a more interesting record. Ultimately it really comes down to the singles where even though 'Keep The Devil Off' is my favorite of the bunch Sunset's repetitiveness mostly turns me off from that track. 2004 gets my vote by just a smidge but overall both teams were dope.

2004:
The College Dropout - 9/10 No matter how many of my favorite Kanye tracks are on here those annoying New Workout Plan tracks always keep me from feeling the record is truly flawless. I love the School Spirit skits though, some of my favorite skits on any album.
Purple Haze - 8.5/10
Overnight Celebrity - 9/10
Selfish - 8/10


2017:
Flower Boy - 9/10
Big Fish Theory - 8.5/10
Sunset - 6/10
Keep The devil Off - 10/10

[babyBlueSedan]

I gave Purple Haze another listened and decided that it is very easily my favorite first listen of the tourney. Definitely don't see why I thought Cam'ron didn't have much mic presence initially, his lyrics popped a lot more upon a revisit. I'm still leaning towards 2017 overall based on single strength but I'll see how I'm feeling once the poll opens.
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[RoundTheBend]

2004 (captain: kokkinos) (9.25)
Kanye West - The College Dropout (2.25)
Cam'ron - Purple Haze (2)
Twista - Overnight Celebrity (2.25)
Slum Village - Selfish (ft. Kanye West & John Legend) (2.75)

vs.

2017 (captain: Hayden) (8.5)
Vince Staples - Big Fish Theory (2.25)
Tyler, the Creator - Flower Boy (2.25)
Lucki - Sunset (1.5)
Big K.R.I.T. - Keep the Devil Off (2.5)

[cestuneblague]

I admire how both teams really conjure a certain time of place with their respective years, props due.


I still love The College Dropout. Yes it's overstuffed with too many interludes and half-baked ideas, and the attempt at oddball humor can feel a bit forced at times.. but there's something just so charming about it, even with his unbridled confidence there does feel something geniunely experimental and personally revealing about the project, the excitement of a still-young hot-shit producer finding his voice, and I don't think that's ever been replicated even among his much more consistient following albums. I admit I'm warming up to Cam'ron as his album here has some quite ingenious ideas and inventive rapping, but in all honesty I found it a more tiring 76-minute listen than College Dropout. The singles again do really take you back to 2004, the first being more meomarble than the second though.


Big Fish Theory is an admitted step up production wise for Staples that I just have never been able to quite latch on to as much as I wish I could, donno maybe the combination of genres that I've never quite fallen in love with or more so I just miss that certain kind of storytelling and mood-setting of the admittely less consistent Summertime '06. However I really did get into Flower Boy, which in retrospect is suprising consdering how much I found Igor a stultifying if certainly handsome bore. it seems really to be a fascinating three-way war with Tyler the Cynic, Tyler the Button-Pushing Puppetmaster and Tyler the Romantic that I found much more compelling, and the production is typically top-notch. Big Krit definitely easily has the best single here, a very modern spin on those old gospel-meets-dirty-south 90s vibes that maybe doesn't blow the roof off but certainly raises the rafters. I do like the vibe of the Lucki single, and I do think I'm coming around to this brand of xanax'd, mush-mouthed cloud rap, even If I agree this feels more like the part of something bigger rather than it's own great standalone single.


So again it's a toughie, I do ever-so-slightly put The College Dropout at the top of the albums but KRIT easily at the top the singles, neither team standing out as a clear winner so perhaps have some re-listening to do.

[kokkinos]

Just a couple of minor thoughts on the 2017 team. Of course you should take my comment with a grain of salt, as I'm directly involved in this matchup. so you could argue my impartiality is severely compromised.
Both albums are wonderfully produced. Even though they are moving in completely different directions in terms of sound, they share one common feature: they are diverse yet cohesive, meaning that their tracks are distinct and memorable enough when assessed individually, but at the same time contribute to the overall atmosphere of the album. That said, I have to I consider Big Fish Theory significantly better than Flower Boy, despite the latter being my favorite Tyler album, while the former ranking just a tiny bit below Summertime '06. I appreciate how Flower Boy makes hip hop sound so non hip hip, so naturally and effortlessly beautiful and bright, but admittedly it can get slightly dull, it simply can't capture my attention the same way as Big Fish Theory does. This is one of those albums with near-infinite replay value, it just keeps hitting hard like it's the first time.
Lucki - Sunset may initially appear as the weak link, but it's a surprising grower to the point of addiction.
Big K.R.I.T. - Keep the Devil Off is another song one could play all day, it seems to never run out of steam.
So, I can easily imagine myself voting in favor of this team under different circumstances.

[Purplepash]

I can't go past the Vince Staples and Tyler, The Creator albums here. That combo probably would have gotten my vote anyway but the big K.R.I.T. single was awesome and guaranteed it.

[baystateoftheart]

The College Dropout: 4.5/5
Purple Haze: 3/5
Overnight Celebrity: 4/5
Selfish: 3.5/5

2004 Total: 15/20

Big Fish Theory: 4/5
Flower Boy: 4/5
Sunset: 3/5
Keep The Devil Off: 4.5/5

2017 Total: 15.5/20

I like the Kanye concept, and it works pretty well, but 2017 is a slightly better team overall.
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[Skinny]

I'm surprised this one isn't closer, to be honest. 2004 has two classic albums, and two enjoyable singles (particularly Twista's). Don't get me wrong, it's up against a good 2017 team with some really strong picks, but it basically comes down to a coin toss for me. Then again, it's evident I hold Cam in higher regard than the majority of users, which is fair enough. You can't all be right all the time.
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2021 in full effect. Come drop me some recs. Y'all know what I like.

[kokkinos]

Every time I check the score, the margin keeps growing, I also thought it would be closer. The funny thing - though somewhat expected - is that out of the three teams I formed for this tournament, it was my least favorite that got me the W.
On the other hand, I can't say I'm upset, considering that:
a)it would be a shame for 2017 to go out with 3 losses, all of its teams were commendable - the two previous ones actually got my vote.
b)a win wouldn't be enough to qualify, as I would have the worst tiebreaker in case of a three way tie.