BYHH GW3: Group A - 1996 vs. 1998 - Games - Forums : Best Ever Albums

baystateoftheart
Neil Young as a butternut squash

Age: 29
Location: Massachusetts

So are we supposed to be evaluating the 1996 original Dr. Octagon, or the 1997 re-release Dr. Octagonecologyst? The latter is the version on streaming, and has tracks added to and subtracted from the original album.
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Skinny
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baystateoftheart wrote:

So are we supposed to be evaluating the 1996 original Dr. Octagon, or the 1997 re-release Dr. Octagonecologyst? The latter is the version on streaming, and has tracks added to and subtracted from the original album.

Good question. I was unaware until now that there are two different versions. Despite what Wikipedia says, Discogs appears to attach the supposed 1997 tracklist (or something very close to it) to a number of 1996 pressings, and I generally trust Discogs more than Wikipedia on these matters. ('Half Shark Half Alligator Man' being one of the tell-tale signs.) Therefore, I would tell users to treat the version on streaming as a 1996 release, but I also don't discourage users from seeking out the slightly different earlier tracklist if they wish.
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baystateoftheart
Neil Young as a butternut squash

Age: 29
Location: Massachusetts

Skinny wrote:

Good question. I was unaware until now that there are two different versions. Despite what Wikipedia says, Discogs appears to attach the supposed 1997 tracklist (or something very close to it) to a number of 1996 pressings, and I generally trust Discogs more than Wikipedia on these matters. ('Half Shark Half Alligator Man' being one of the tell-tale signs.) Therefore, I would tell users to treat the version on streaming as a 1996 release, but I also don't discourage users from seeking out the slightly different earlier tracklist if they wish.

The tracklists are pretty similar to begin with, and the track you mention is on both versions (sometimes as a hidden track). So I don't see what you're talking about regarding Discogs having '96 releases with '97 tracklists. Either way, I don't care what the solution/directive is - just wanted to clarify.
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Skinny
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baystateoftheart wrote:

The tracklists are pretty similar to begin with, and the track you mention is on both versions (sometimes as a hidden track). So I don't see what you're talking about regarding Discogs having '96 releases with '97 tracklists. Either way, I don't care what the solution/directive is - just wanted to clarify.

Either counts as a 1996 release.
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RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

Somehow this go around I took the list from the top the way they were posted in the match up post, enjoying the review of my year near the last of it instead of first. Here's where the spotify playlist crumbles... will need to listen to The Visualz EP.

1996 (captain: Streams) (10.25)
Dr. Octagon - Dr. Octagonecologyst (2.5)
My first listen of this a bit back I liked it a lot - great flow and tracks, but this time around I actually paid attention to how many times he rhymed with rectum or anus and started to get this kinda juvenile vibe from it I wasn't getting before. Part of me wishes I hadn't noticed that because otherwise I really dig probs would've given a 3.

Siah and Yeshua Dapo ED - Siah and Yeshua Dapo ED (a.k.a. The Visualz EP) (3)
30 seconds and know this is likely going to be the shit. Second track in, and hot damn... that bass track. I'm going to finish listening to this, but I'm 99% sure I can give this a 3. ok it actually gets a 300... Rite of Spring sample... damn...

MC Eiht - Thuggin' It Up (2.25) - idk didn't really do anything for me as I'd expect a single to, quality as it is

2Pac - I Ain't Mad At Cha (ft. Danny Boy) - for a 2Pac track, I was hoping for some more (2.5)

vs.

1998 (captain: RoundTheBend) (11.75)
Gang Starr - Moment of Truth (2.75)
I remember first listening to this and liking it, so when I realized it was a 98 release it was an obvious choice for me. Yes, I don't disagree that EVERYONE in the late 90s were making long/bloated albums partially due to the CD format. Curious if that was just due to the height of the CD format or if record execs were dumb and thought that people thought if it had more songs it was more valuable. Anyway, incredible flow and beats here, so obvs choice for me even if it can drag at times... but they also do a good job spicing it up throughout (what I like most about the album is it's diverse soundscape).

Aceyalone - A Book of Human Language (3)
This might be one of my favorite hip-hop records this go around. I really fell in love with a lot of things about this record, but as kokkinos stated, the diction is incredibly smooth and clear, and the clever lyrics pop like very very few hip-hop records consistently do. Plus those backing tracks are badass and the concept I liked. This one pulls my heart strings in a lot of ways - energy, dynamics - idk all those bullshit words that people care about, but in the end it just is "great".

Busta Rhymes - Gimme Some More (3)
Oh damn - speaking of flow, Busta Rhymes' flow is also magnificent. Plus this kinda "flip mode" mindset I get lost in.

Beastie Boys - Intergalactic (3)
For anyone considering Beastie Boys as anyone less hip-hop than The Streets (and it looks like I'm alone here), I just don't get that. The Def-Jam scene is a massive part of hip-hop history. And yes white guys doing hip-hop seems to have Run-DMC written all over them - major influence. I mean as late as 93 Run-DMC was doing that same style. It might even be why I chose this track - my hip-hop beginnings are like 1991, so that late 80s stuff was plenty popular and while this track is likely the last cool track with that style, it's just a band doing the style they got famous off of, and while you could say that it was a "long time" idk... Anyway, I care about what's good and I care about what's a good single, and this single was one of the biggest in 98. If you are a hip-hop purist and think Beastie Boys aren't worthy to call themselves hip-hop... I guess that could be said for like 6-7 other entries in this game, and this would be at the bottom of that list, if you ask me (poor argument is all I'm sayin). Plus that "intergalactic planetary" and "another demension" intro is the shit - reminds me a bit of Planet Rock from Afrika Bambaataa... another "old school players to new school fools".

Skinny
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Don't get me wrong, I love the Beasties. I was being somewhat facetious about their whole image by 1998, especially with regards to their zines and their 'Free Tibet' phase and the endless play of their Spike Jonze videos on MTV2 - they just adopted a completely alt. rock aesthetic, but I don't seriously believe they aren't "hip-hop".

The flow comment was a bit more sincere - it was such a completely dated style of rapping by 1998, and they weren't even attempting a more modern flow. It's neither a good thing nor a bad thing in and of itself, but it just seems crazy to me that - unlike that Run-DMC 1990s stuff - it was still finding a sizeable audience and widespread critical acclaim in spite of it being so primitive or archaic. (Maybe this is because they were able to appeal to the alt. rock crowd and kinda move beyond hip-hop, in that sense, which is what I was getting at before.)

Anyway, tl;dr: the Beasties are great, I would never seriously suggest that they aren't hip-hop nor that they weren't massively important in the genre's evolution, but they had a ton of crossover appeal with certain crowds.
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LedZep

Skinny wrote:

Anyway, tl;dr: the Beasties are great, I would never seriously suggest that they aren't hip-hop nor that they weren't massively important in the genre's evolution, but they had a ton of crossover appeal with certain crowds.

Honestly I see that as a positive. Of course "hip hop for hiphopheads" is great, but I also find it pretty cool when an actually good hip hop group crosses the genre boundaries and appeals to a whole different crowd. It may get some slack from purists of course, but whatever. Their style wasn't exactly the freshest thing in 1998, although I don't have serious problems with that either.
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2020s
90s

Skinny
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LedZep wrote:

Skinny wrote:

Anyway, tl;dr: the Beasties are great, I would never seriously suggest that they aren't hip-hop nor that they weren't massively important in the genre's evolution, but they had a ton of crossover appeal with certain crowds.

Honestly I see that as a positive. Of course "hip hop for hiphopheads" is great, but I also find it pretty cool when an actually good hip hop group crosses the genre boundaries and appeals to a whole different crowd. It may get some slack from purists of course, but whatever. Their style wasn't exactly the freshest thing in 1998, although I don't have serious problems with that either.

Same, I'm just clearly doing an awful job of articulating my feelings. I don't think the Beasties really get slack from anyone, to be fair. They're one of those institutions who get love from a wide spectrum of listeners, and it's totally deserved. It was more a neutral observation, coming largely from a stance of admiration, that the Beasties were able to stay relevant and interesting in spite of their adherence to a relatively outdated style of rapping. A lot of this is down to interesting production choices. Of those early Def Jam artists, only the Beasties and LL Cool J (and, to a lesser extent, Slick Rick) were really able to navigate the changes in hip-hop throughout the 1990s, and the Beasties didn't even have to update their flow in order to do so. It's impressive, and I was simply positing that the probable reason for this is that they tapped into an alternative worldview and aesthetic that appealed to fans who otherwise probably weren't overly interested in mainstream rap. This is a positive thing. To reiterate, I love the Beasties, even with their 1986 flow.
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kokkinos

Yeah, now that I look at it, my comment on Beastie Boys was overly critical for no particular reason, apologies for that, but I didn't mean to imply it has no business being here due to genre (I mean, not only did I nominate The Streets, I also made an enquiry regarding the eligibility of artists such as Subtle, cLOUDDEAD and Faust/Dälek, so I would never complain about something not being "hip hop enough"). My criticism had to do with how great the other three singles were and how this immediately stroke me as a painfully weak link. I can enjoy some of their older stuff (I found the key is that the less seriously you take them the better they sound), but by 1998 it was time to move on - not that I listened to them or pretty much any music back then due to age, I am talking in retrospect.

RoundTheBend
I miss the comfort in being sad

Location: Ground Control

oh no worries - sorry if I was a turd.

All salient points.