Album of the day (#4296): Parklife by Blur

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theblueboy





  • #11
  • Posted: 09/26/2022 09:41
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My other thought is that Blur, XTC and Wire are the UK’s art rock holy trinity.

Bowie is great but still only comes in 4th Anxious
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kokkinos





  • #12
  • Posted: 09/26/2022 21:05
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theblueboy wrote:
My other thought is that Blur, XTC and Wire are the UK’s art rock holy trinity.

Bowie is great but still only comes in 4th Anxious

Hmm, I had never thought of it that way.
I guess it depends on how loose the definition of "art rock" is. Do you consider bands like Radiohead, Talk Talk, Pink Floyd or King Crimson to fall into this category?
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MadhattanJack
I mean, metal is okay, but...


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  • #13
  • Posted: 09/26/2022 21:17
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Someone made a chart a while back, but oddly enough, none of those three bands are on it! Confused

Besides, if you're going to establish a "holy trinity" then you'll also need an unholy trinity to go along with it, and that's just gonna get super-messy if you ask me.
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Skinny
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  • #14
  • Posted: 09/26/2022 23:47
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“Art rock” seems to me to be a largely meaningless term - but, even with that caveat, Blur (who I enjoy quite a bit) surely don’t qualify?
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theblueboy





  • #15
  • Posted: 09/27/2022 08:31
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kokkinos wrote:
theblueboy wrote:
My other thought is that Blur, XTC and Wire are the UK’s art rock holy trinity.

Bowie is great but still only comes in 4th Anxious

Hmm, I had never thought of it that way.
I guess it depends on how loose the definition of "art rock" is. Do you consider bands like Radiohead, Talk Talk, Pink Floyd or King Crimson to fall into this category?


Yeah, impossible to come up with a good definition of "art rock" because there is no definition of art that everyone can agree on. Weirdly though- even though those bands you mention are easily as arty and rock as the ones I mentioned- I feel that they fit my sense of art rock less so than Blur, XTC and Wire. I think this is because my notion is mainly due to the way that the term has been used in the British music press. Art school bands get contrasted with no nonsense rockers. E.g. Bowie and Roxy were considered the art rock version of glam rock. XTC and Wire were art rock versions of new wave and punk respectively. Blur the art rock version of Oasis's back to basics britpop. It might have more to do with how tight your jeans are, overall jerkiness and asymmetrical fringes than anything especially musical lol.

With Floyd, Crimson, Radiohead and possibly Talk Talk as well, I see less of a point of comparison for the no-nonsense version of what they do. Overall, I'd say they might tend to get called progressive rather than arty for that reason. Also, they are just not as good as the three bands I mentioned hehe

But yeah, all that is a slightly awkward justification as I'm saying that art rockers are arty versions of commercially viable music rather than necessarily being "art for art's sake" type of bands. Even so, there is something that seems to unite Blur, XTC and Wire in my mind. I was reaching and "art rock" was the best that sprang up d'oh! Not sure if they all formed at art school. I think Blur did.


Last edited by theblueboy on 09/27/2022 08:44; edited 5 times in total
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theblueboy





  • #16
  • Posted: 09/27/2022 08:35
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MadhattanJack wrote:
Someone made a chart a while back, but oddly enough, none of those three bands are on it! Confused


I have to forgive it though, because of the problems with defining art rock.

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Besides, if you're going to establish a "holy trinity" then you'll also need an unholy trinity to go along with it, and that's just gonna get super-messy if you ask me.


The unholy trinity might be even better Smile

Edit: Just looked at the chart and Blur are actually on there (with 13) Laughing Pulp also on there interestingly.

It’s a solid chart to be fair. Heavier on the prog than my own definition of art rock suggests, but worth a look.


Last edited by theblueboy on 09/27/2022 09:42; edited 1 time in total
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theblueboy





  • #17
  • Posted: 09/27/2022 08:40
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Skinny wrote:
“Art rock” seems to me to be a largely meaningless term - but, even with that caveat, Blur (who I enjoy quite a bit) surely don’t qualify?


Yeah, it's ultimately an undefinable term, though I think serves a function in certain contexts. E.g. providing contrast with more back to basics bands. On this basis, Blur can be considered arty because they were more clever than Oasis and Ocean Colour Scene. Though this may be damning them with faint praise lol.
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kokkinos





  • #18
  • Posted: 09/28/2022 21:23
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theblueboy wrote:
Yeah, impossible to come up with a good definition of "art rock" because there is no definition of art that everyone can agree on. Weirdly though- even though those bands you mention are easily as arty and rock as the ones I mentioned- I feel that they fit my sense of art rock less so than Blur, XTC and Wire. I think this is because my notion is mainly due to the way that the term has been used in the British music press. Art school bands get contrasted with no nonsense rockers. E.g. Bowie and Roxy were considered the art rock version of glam rock. XTC and Wire were art rock versions of new wave and punk respectively. Blur the art rock version of Oasis's back to basics britpop. It might have more to do with how tight your jeans are, overall jerkiness and asymmetrical fringes than anything especially musical lol.

With Floyd, Crimson, Radiohead and possibly Talk Talk as well, I see less of a point of comparison for the no-nonsense version of what they do. Overall, I'd say they might tend to get called progressive rather than arty for that reason. Also, they are just not as good as the three bands I mentioned hehe

But yeah, all that is a slightly awkward justification as I'm saying that art rockers are arty versions of commercially viable music rather than necessarily being "art for art's sake" type of bands. Even so, there is something that seems to unite Blur, XTC and Wire in my mind. I was reaching and "art rock" was the best that sprang up d'oh! Not sure if they all formed at art school. I think Blur did.


(All of this may be meaningless, but it’s the kind of meaningless I love overthinking and it’s interesting nonetheless, so I’ll keep going down the rabbit hole a bit more. Feel free to stop me anytime.)
Ok, I think I get it, that’s far from the definition I had in mind – which wasn’t that clear to begin with. Maybe alternative rock would be closer to what you are describing, I don’t know.
And yes, I see that it’s not as easy to draw such parallels with the bands I mentioned. Radiohead is probably the most obvious, their commercial counterpart could be Muse. Talk Talk went through the most impossible transformation ever, so I guess it makes sense to say they are the most sophisticated version of ... themselves, lol. Maybe early Floyd could be compared with some of the “silly” psychedelic music of the time, but I can’t think of anything for their progressive era, same for King Crimson, all their peers took their music too seriously.
Anyway, based on the rules you set, you definitely have a respectable trinity, though I’d like to throw in The Clash as candidate for the art version of punk and Pulp for the art version of Britpop.
Also, I’m wondering if the entire post-punk genre is included by default, since it was supposed to be a more “intellectual” version of punk? If that’s the case, Joy Division and The Cure are also in the running for a spot.
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theblueboy





  • #19
  • Posted: 09/29/2022 06:35
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kokkinos wrote:


(All of this may be meaningless, but it’s the kind of meaningless I love overthinking and it’s interesting nonetheless, so I’ll keep going down the rabbit hole a bit more. Feel free to stop me anytime.)
Ok, I think I get it, that’s far from the definition I had in mind – which wasn’t that clear to begin with. Maybe alternative rock would be closer to what you are describing, I don’t know.


Yeah, alt rock would be more defensible. But yeah, I think there is a sense of precision and detail, along with pop/ melodic sensibilities that unites the three bands I mentioned. I was reaching for a more specific term, which doesn’t really exist.

Quote:

And yes, I see that it’s not as easy to draw such parallels with the bands I mentioned. Radiohead is probably the most obvious, their commercial counterpart could be Muse. Talk Talk went through the most impossible transformation ever, so I guess it makes sense to say they are the most sophisticated version of ... themselves, lol. Maybe early Floyd could be compared with some of the “silly” psychedelic music of the time, but I can’t think of anything for their progressive era, same for King Crimson, all their peers took their music too seriously.


Agreed, though I’m not hung up on the comparison thing. It’s just a weird thing where quintessential art rockers seem to be bands like Roxy Music and Talking Heads. So the comparison thingy is just a theory about that. It’s not so important though. I’m pretty happy to drop art-rock as a genre description due to its vaugeness.


Quote:
Anyway, based on the rules you set, you definitely have a respectable trinity, though I’d like to throw in The Clash as candidate for the art version of punk and Pulp for the art version of Britpop.
Also, I’m wondering if the entire post-punk genre is included by default, since it was supposed to be a more “intellectual” version of punk? If that’s the case, Joy Division and The Cure are also in the running for a spot.

Yeah, Clash are an interesting call. Simon Reynolds (well known Brit music journalist) was quite critical of them for sort of being classic rock pretenders in punk clothes (in the sense that they were self-righteous/ sticking it to the man, which Reynolds seemed to see as less vital to punk compared to the Pistol’s nihilism). I always found that interesting. I do like them just not as much as Wire and XTC.

Personally, I prefer Wire to the Cure and Joy Division. A lot would disagree though Smile Pulp were great at their best. I don’t think they were as consistent as Blur or XTC.

Don’t worry about going down rabbit holes Wink
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CharlieBarley



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  • #20
  • Posted: 10/01/2022 12:41
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for me a classic
the sort of album I will put on when I'm feeling good
To The End is my favourite track
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