"We are the Sherlock Holmes English speaking vernacular"

- The Kinks
 
a plea to everyone

Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Forum Index -> Best Ever Albums -> Suggestions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message

purple





#1 | Posted: 02/04/2012 18:00 | Post subject: a plea to everyone Reply with quote
disclaimer: though I will be using names of threads as examples, this post is not intended as an attack on the authors of those threads.

disclaimer: this post has nothing to do with music, but applies largely to the music forum.

discussion on BEA is becoming stagnant and it's becoming stagnant because users are covering the same ground. by "covering the same ground" I mean that I have never seen so many useless or duplicate threads created in such a short time as the past month or so.

ultimately I don't want anyone to cut down on content, I just want users to organize it. I want users to organize their posts because a good thread gets buried within days after its inception by useless or duplicate threads and its simply annoying for older users to see multiples of similar threads. below are some recent examples of threads that should not be and methods to retain the content without creating a new thread.

(1) If you want to discuss a genre, chances are it's been done before. Search for threads containing the name of the genre you want to discuss, and post in those pre-existing threads.
e.g. problem: Rap and Hip hop on Best Ever Albums?:
remedy: search 'hip hop' and you might find Top 50 Hip Hop/Rap Albums, My Top 10 of Hip Hop, Greatest Rapper, and Rap

(2) Vs. album threads are for the VS THREAD (in games), tournaments, or really any thread in which the original poster can post his thoughts, and ask for others', on the albums in question (e.g. any thread which mentions one or both of the artists in the title). These are problem threads because they multiply quickly and often end quickly. There haven't been problems with Vs. artist threads yet, so I'll ignore them
e.g. problem: Exile on Main Street vs The White Album
remedy: VS THREAD post

(3) there are some threads that should never be
e.g. problem: Is this song worthy to be used as a username
remedy: don't make it! or post whatever you want to express in a relevant thread (for this one, the Album of the Day: Screamadelica thread would have been perfect)

(4) Influence threads are now becoming multiples of previous threads, and therefore old ground is being covered in new threads
e.g. problem: Is an album's influence overvalued?
remedy: search for a previous influence discussion and post in there

(5) [insert artist] new album threads take up space, are speculative, and easily condensed
e.g. problem: Modest Mouse- new album?
remedy: post in 2012 albums thread (20xx for future years)

(6) threads for individual albums, books, etc. take up space and are easily condensed
e.g. problem: The Satanic Verses
remedy: post your thoughts and questions in favourite literature thread (in lounge)
e.g. problem: What is the big deal with Pet Sounds?
remedy: post thoughts in appropriate beach boys thread (exists) or the Album of the Day: Pet Sounds thread

(7) what's the best album from [insert artist] threads.
e.g. problem: Favorite [Rush, Smiths, Black Sabbath, Beatles, Captain Beefheart] album?
remedy: discuss on pre-existing Album of the Day threads, threads discussing relevant artists (e.g. Beatles vs. Radiohead for favorite Beatles albums)

If there's trouble finding a previous thread related to content you would like to post, create a versatile thread that can be re-used e.g. instead of all the examples in (7), create a "Rank Discography from Artist" thread

As I post there are two joke threads on top of each other in the lounge (Jokes, the worst/stupidest pun jokes you've ever heard) which is a currently perfect example of why users should utilize the search function before posting a new thread. I recognize that the current search engine is clunky, but it works well enough, and perhaps making it more user-friendly should be a primary goal for 2012.

This is not intended to be restrictive. Keep the content but keep it organized. Do this, and you'll be welcome to the community, and not known as the user who creates useless threads of which there seem to be several lately.

This content is sticky worthy, but I suggest simply trying to float this at the top of the music forum for awhile because new users often skip past the stickies.
Back to top

RFNAPLES
Level 8


Gender: Male
Age: 70
Location: Durham, NC, USA
United States

#2 | Posted: 02/04/2012 18:11 | Post subject: Reply with quote
I empathize with you but isn't it like herding cats? Do you think the ability of an OP to tag his topic might help?
_________________
Top 100 Greatest Music Albums by RFNAPLES
Bubbling Under The Top 100 Greatest Mus...y RFNAPLES
Back to top
Visit poster's website View user's profile Send private message Send email Visit poster's website

pearljammer13
Proud Mudblood


Gender: Male
Age: 32
Location: Massachusetts
United States

#3 | Posted: 02/04/2012 18:12 | Post subject: Reply with quote
I always use the search tab before I post a topic, but it's definitely "clunky"...sometimes I'm still not sure if I've missed something and am still posting a duplicate. Definitely agree that the search tab should be updated to be more efficient somehow (no idea how that stuff works), and maybe put in a more prominent spot when you click to open a new thread. But I totally agree with the overall point, I hate when a great topic gets buried and forgotten quickly.
Back to top
Visit poster's website View user's profile Send private message

Romanelli
Bone Swah


Gender: Male
Location: The Spokane Valley
United States
Moderator

#4 | Posted: 02/04/2012 18:31 | Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm sorry, but if I were new to this forum and read that, I'd probably never post here.

I think that telling people they will be "welcome to the community" if they go through the annoying steps of searching the entire board for a topic that may have been done a year, two or three years ago is a bit pompous and unnecessary. This place is hard enough to break into because of the closeness of the core group as it is without throwing out a set of rules like this. It may be an inconvenience to you to have to see the same topic twice (or in the wrong place), but, realistically, if I want to post a thread about my experiences at a concert or wanting to know what people may think of a certain band or album, if I have to use the search function in order to be non-offensive to a small group of people, I'm probably going to ask my question somewhere else.

And at the same time, I've seen people pull up old threads. For instance, there was one about starting a game or something about jazz albums. Turns out the thread was actually 3 years old, and people were talking to the OP (who it was pointed out later hasn't been here in a very long time) as if he had made the thread yesterday. Waste of time.

Also, the threads here get very long, very fast. Part of it is that the pages hold only, what, 9 posts? Threads that people see for the first time that have 10-20 pages of posts on them are going to end up being mostly unread and have content duplicated because people don't want to sift through 10-20 pages to see if they are going to be repeating someone. Yuck.

I think that the long time users here should be more tolerant of new members by NOT imposing these kinds of rules on how to post on these boards. If you want this to be a growing thing, you can't treat the board like an exclusive club for 15-20 people, and expect them to treat it like the tiny board it probably used to be. If someone makes a post tomorrow about, say, the comparison between Judas Priest and Metallica, the choices are as follows:

a) Tell him rudely (is there really a nice way?) to go back, use the search function, and pull up the thread that was started previously that has about 12 (guess) pages to read through, and post on that thread instead of starting another one. And while you're at it, say goodbye. Because that person will probably not come back.

b) Realize that the person is new, and wasn't around when that was the hot topic, and participate in a new thread that will probably have some new content. Even if it doesn't, you will appear much more welcoming to the new member than if you tell them to get off their ass and use the search function because you don't like duplicate threads.

c) You've read it before, you're over it. Go on to the next thread.
Back to top
Visit poster's website View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website

purple





#5 | Posted: 02/04/2012 19:17 | Post subject: Reply with quote
these aren't imposed rules. I'm not albummaster and I'm not a moderator.

frankly I don't care how I appear to users, old or new, and I have no sympathy for any case which you've described. It takes seconds to a couple of minutes to search for pre-existing threads. Like any social situation, if people don't curb these annoying tendencies (Is this song worthy to be my username, really) then they will be alienated by the core community. There are several forums that take a more active approach and, rather than suggesting what I have, probate and ban members for such posting habits. I'm not suggesting this site should be policed, I'm suggesting that the community organizes itself so a more policed site doesn't start to appear more attractive.
Back to top

albummaster
Janitor


Gender: Male
Location: Spain
Site Admin

#6 | Posted: 02/04/2012 19:53 | Post subject: Reply with quote
personally, I sit somewhere between the two positions. Yes, people should try a bit harder not to post duplicate threads (particularly where the same thread was only created hours earlier and is still on the same page - this happens far too often). I also accept the forum search functionality and the 'related posts' function could be improved, and it might help a bit to solve the underlying problem (if that's the main gripe). To be honest, though, I don't think the problem is a technical one, it is more that the site covers quite a narrow subject area, and because of that, there are bound to be areas where topics cross over.

I do think people would find it more welcoming if they were politely told forum etiquette rather than ostracised for posting 'wrongly'. If new members were welcomed more warmly, I'm sure the community would grow much faster and everyone would benefit from a greater collective contribution.

I think there's ten posts per page at the moment. Posts tend to be quite wordy here and it becomes intimidating to read if there is too much on one page. I think ten is about right, but posts can vary in content and some threads by their nature are less verbose than others.
Back to top
Visit poster's website View user's profile Send private message

HigherThanTheSun



Gender: Male
Age: 28
Location: UK
United Kingdom

#7 | Posted: 02/04/2012 20:32 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Ok so it looks like I'm guilty of at least three of you points and to be fair my 'Is this worthy post' was a complete waste fo time, apologies. I'm new here though and I didn't know it was protocol to search through old threads before asking anything. Besides if you comment on an old thread it goes top of the list anyways so what's the differance? And you can't follow the comments as they come up either, you have to read through maybe 7 pages of comments before you get up to date with the thread, who wants that?

Also these boards are very quiet, I'll bet there's less than 10 new threads made per day in the music section so is it really a problem? If we're not allowed to discuss genres, new albums, the relative merits of albums and artists, the criteria for evaluating albums etc, then what exactly are we supposed to talk about?

Also, good threads don't "get buried within days" do they? Good threads get commented on and stay at the top of the page, bad threads fall away quite quickly.

Like I say I'm new so I'm not trying to rock the boat or anything, and maybe I'll think twice before I post something as dumb as the one about my username that's fair enough, but this sort of thread doesn't make this place seem very friendly. My first thread on this website was about Arcade Fire's Funeral and it got tore apart by almost everyone, I'm surprised I stuck around.
_________________
Shut up mate you're boring!
Back to top
Visit poster's website View user's profile Send private message

albummaster
Janitor


Gender: Male
Location: Spain
Site Admin

#8 | Posted: 02/04/2012 20:40 | Post subject: Reply with quote
you shouldn't have to apologise. I thought the username thread was fun (& a great song), and I pretty much agree with everything you have just written.
Back to top
Visit poster's website View user's profile Send private message

pearljammer13
Proud Mudblood


Gender: Male
Age: 32
Location: Massachusetts
United States

#9 | Posted: 02/04/2012 20:57 | Post subject: Reply with quote
HigherThanTheSun wrote:
Ok so it looks like I'm guilty of at least three of you points and to be fair my 'Is this worthy post' was a complete waste fo time, apologies. I'm new here though and I didn't know it was protocol to search through old threads before asking anything. Besides if you comment on an old thread it goes top of the list anyways so what's the differance? And you can't follow the comments as they come up either, you have to read through maybe 7 pages of comments before you get up to date with the thread, who wants that?

Also these boards are very quiet, I'll bet there's less than 10 new threads made per day in the music section so is it really a problem? If we're not allowed to discuss genres, new albums, the relative merits of albums and artists, the criteria for evaluating albums etc, then what exactly are we supposed to talk about?

Also, good threads don't "get buried within days" do they? Good threads get commented on and stay at the top of the page, bad threads fall away quite quickly.

Like I say I'm new so I'm not trying to rock the boat or anything, and maybe I'll think twice before I post something as dumb as the one about my username that's fair enough, but this sort of thread doesn't make this place seem very friendly. My first thread on this website was about Arcade Fire's Funeral and it got tore apart by almost everyone, I'm surprised I stuck around.


Yeah I mean I hope these forums don't scare people away like that. I'm relatively new as well...I know when I first started posting I was kind of on eggshells hoping not to offend people, cause you can tell how close knit a lot of the users are. I really like seeing new users around, cause this site deserves to and should be more popular. So lets hope we don't intimidate new users and send them packing. I agree with the overall point of this thread, but at the same time it's really not that big of a deal, as long as more people are around.
Back to top
Visit poster's website View user's profile Send private message

19loveless91
dipl. kult.



Slovenia

#10 | Posted: 02/04/2012 21:05 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah I sort of agree with purple on some points... There was a case when somebody opened a "Best Pink Floyd album" thread, even though there was exactly the same thread opened a couple of weeks earlier... And there are many cases like that.

On the other hand, some of the examples aren't that clear to me.
purple wrote:

(1) If you want to discuss a genre, chances are it's been done before. Search for threads containing the name of the genre you want to discuss, and post in those pre-existing threads.
e.g. problem: Rap and Hip hop on Best Ever Albums?:
remedy: search 'hip hop' and you might find Top 50 Hip Hop/Rap Albums, My Top 10 of Hip Hop, Greatest Rapper, and Rap

The "hip hop on BEA" thread was opened to discuss the matter of why this genre isn't as prominent on the overall chart as some other. Not the same as somebody opening a thread to show a list of his favourite rap albums. I opened a thread about "best live performances". By this logic I should just post in the best live albums thread (I think there is one). But these two are completely different things to me.

Quote:
(2) Vs. album threads are for the VS THREAD (in games), tournaments, or really any thread in which the original poster can post his thoughts, and ask for others', on the albums in question (e.g. any thread which mentions one or both of the artists in the title). These are problem threads because they multiply quickly and often end quickly. There haven't been problems with Vs. artist threads yet, so I'll ignore them
e.g. problem: Exile on Main Street vs The White Album
remedy: VS THREAD post

Similarly I don't mind specific this kind of "vs threads", as long as the OP gives a clear reason why he thinks the two "things" in question should be compared.

Quote:
(3) there are some threads that should never be
e.g. problem: Is this song worthy to be used as a username
remedy: don't make it! or post whatever you want to express in a relevant thread (for this one, the Album of the Day: Screamadelica thread would have been perfect)


Quote:
(4) Influence threads are now becoming multiples of previous threads, and therefore old ground is being covered in new threads
e.g. problem: Is an album's influence overvalued?
remedy: search for a previous influence discussion and post in there


Quote:
(5) [insert artist] new album threads take up space, are speculative, and easily condensed
e.g. problem: Modest Mouse- new album?
remedy: post in 2012 albums thread (20xx for future years)


Quote:
(6) threads for individual albums, books, etc. take up space and are easily condensed
e.g. problem: The Satanic Verses
remedy: post your thoughts and questions in favourite literature thread (in lounge)
e.g. problem: What is the big deal with Pet Sounds?
remedy: post thoughts in appropriate beach boys thread (exists) or the Album of the Day: Pet Sounds thread

I generally agree with these points, but again, I see where there could be exceptions...

E.g. some of the previous topics on the same matter have been opened a long time ago, without any new replies in last two years... I don't think there's much sense in digging up such threads. If nothing else, there's the problem that Romanelli mentioned, where people would start talking to those that haven't been around for a long time. And you know that new members are still entitled to discuss these things, even if they had been discussed before. And it's not as it would be any different for you, as an older member, if a new thread is opened, or an old one is dug up (as long as it is only one thread of course)

The 5th point is also the one, where I'm OK with certain threads. I mean, it's useless to open a new thread for every new release, but there are some albums each year, which will be anticipated and also talked about by plenty more people than usual (King of Limbs last year, and, why not - Modest Mouse this year)

7th point has more to do with the problem of creating duplicate threads. I don't mind different threads for a certain band (for example a "Best Beatles album" and another separate one like "Radiohead vs Beatles" is), as long as the topic for discussion is worthy of a separate thread. I don't think cramming everything that is roughly about the same "issue" (eg a band) into one thread is helping the discussion, if nothing else it's more untransparent, which kind of defeats the purpose.
Back to top
Visit poster's website View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies. All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5
   Forum Index -> Best Ever Albums -> Suggestions


 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 
 

Powered by phpBB©



Copyright © 2005-2019 BestEverAlbums.com. All rights reserved.    Terms of Use  |   Privacy Policy  |   Contact Us  |   Advertising  |   RSS Feeds  |   Site Map