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19loveless91
dipl. kult.



Slovenia

#11 | Posted: 11/22/2012 20:10 | Post subject: Reply with quote
I mind spam ratings, as that has so far also meant low ratings for some of the yugo albums I've been trying to "promote" (via my charts).
I mind spam comments, because I don't like to see a site that I frequently visit riddled with comments like that.
I agree with what you say about short forum posts, and yes, a lot of us do that sometimes (me too). But I would hate it if there would be an increasing number of members, who would predominantly write posts like that. Not saying we've reached that point (or will be reaching it shortly), but I'm not gonna lie and say it wouldn't bother me if it would happen.

As far as the incorrect moderation costing points... I'm not sure this works. If you look at my example (see OP), the guy changed the artwork for OK Computer, and replaced it with a wrong picture. Then, a minute later, he replaced it again with the original, correct artwork. And got 6 mod points for that...
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Norman Bates



Gender: Male
Age: 46
Location: Paris, France
France

#12 | Posted: 11/22/2012 21:15 | Post subject: Reply with quote
19loveless91 wrote:
If you look at my example (see OP), the guy changed the artwork for OK Computer, and replaced it with a wrong picture. Then, a minute later, he replaced it again with the original, correct artwork. And got 6 mod points for that...


Frankly? If incorrect moderation costing points doesn't happen, I say let the guy play his game. He's only ridiculing himself, and I can only pity him for it. As long as the data's right eventually...
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Jasonconfused
If We Make It We Can All Sit Back and Laugh


Gender: Male
Age: 26
Location: Los Angeles
United States

#13 | Posted: 11/23/2012 04:41 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Not that I have a huge problem with short comments on albums, but just an idea.. maybe the word "comment" doesn't have a very formal connotation so people don't necessarily feel compelled to write a full review. Maybe if that section of albums, bands, and songs were changed to be called "reviews" it would maybe be taken a little more seriously. Or maybe not and people will continue to comment for points..
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thejoj96





#14 | Posted: 11/23/2012 04:42 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Jasonconfused wrote:
Not that I have a huge problem with short comments on albums, but just an idea.. maybe the word "comment" doesn't have a very formal connotation so people don't necessarily feel compelled to write a full review. Maybe if that section of albums, bands, and songs were changed to be called "reviews" it would maybe be taken a little more seriously. Or maybe not and people will continue to comment for points..

I usually make short comments but not for points.
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Jasonconfused
If We Make It We Can All Sit Back and Laugh


Gender: Male
Age: 26
Location: Los Angeles
United States

#15 | Posted: 11/23/2012 05:55 | Post subject: Reply with quote
thejoj96 wrote:
I usually make short comments but not for points.


Oh me too. I'm not saying that all short comments are for points. I think we're all guilty of short comments at one point or another.
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Happymeal





#16 | Posted: 11/23/2012 07:57 | Post subject: Reply with quote
19loveless91 wrote:
I mind spam ratings, as that has so far also meant low ratings for some of the yugo albums I've been trying to "promote" (via my charts).
I mind spam comments, because I don't like to see a site that I frequently visit riddled with comments like that.
I agree with what you say about short forum posts, and yes, a lot of us do that sometimes (me too). But I would hate it if there would be an increasing number of members, who would predominantly write posts like that. Not saying we've reached that point (or will be reaching it shortly), but I'm not gonna lie and say it wouldn't bother me if it would happen.

As far as the incorrect moderation costing points... I'm not sure this works. If you look at my example (see OP), the guy changed the artwork for OK Computer, and replaced it with a wrong picture. Then, a minute later, he replaced it again with the original, correct artwork. And got 6 mod points for that...


To be fair, an album may get a small amount of low ratings because of spammers, but if it consistently gets low ratings, that just means people don't like the album. I admit, I agree that there is gonna be a problem with an increasing amount of members. One of the few problems I would have is spamming ratings, but even then, I doubt enough people do that to outweigh the majority. The short comments don't hurt anyone. The only problem I could see is a string of comments that have very little content, but even then it doesn't seem to hurt anyone.
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albummaster
Janitor


Gender: Male
Location: Spain
Site Admin

#17 | Posted: 11/23/2012 08:47 | Post subject: Reply with quote
purple wrote:
I think the easiest solution to this is to emplace a word or character minimum on album and artist comments to count for points.

I'm not sure this would work as people can just paste a template or whatever to get over the limit, and some short comments here are quite valid.

The Poe wrote:
Whenever I add an album, there is some sort of auto-correct on the site that makes the album title all capital letters. For example, I recently added an album called "Sung to the North" and I typed it that way, but after submitting it came out as "Sung To The North".

This does not happen for song titles, which is why the song on that album of the same name is spelt "Sung to the North". http://www.besteveralbums.com/thechart.php?a=32946

When a new album or band is added from a chart it is auto-capitalised until it is moderated (some albums were being added IN ALL CAPS, which looks a bit horrid). However, the moderation system is different and obeys the exact text that is entered by the user because there are situations where words are mixed case, or where the capitalisation needs to be overridden. So, if an album was added from a chart (but had not been moderated), and then a track listing was added, this would create the situation that was spoken about earlier in this thread.

19loveless91 wrote:
I mind spam ratings, as that has so far also meant low ratings for some of the yugo albums I've been trying to "promote" (via my charts).
I mind spam comments, because I don't like to see a site that I frequently visit riddled with comments like that.
I agree with what you say about short forum posts, and yes, a lot of us do that sometimes (me too). But I would hate it if there would be an increasing number of members, who would predominantly write posts like that. Not saying we've reached that point (or will be reaching it shortly), but I'm not gonna lie and say it wouldn't bother me if it would happen.

As far as the incorrect moderation costing points... I'm not sure this works. If you look at my example (see OP), the guy changed the artwork for OK Computer, and replaced it with a wrong picture. Then, a minute later, he replaced it again with the original, correct artwork. And got 6 mod points for that...

I agree with all of this, and as far as the last paragraph is concerned, I've reversed out the points for that edit. However, it's impossible for me alone to review every edit that goes through the system. People with data moderator permissions are able to reject edits (by clicking reject/approve in the moderation history for each item). Rejected edits are awarded a -1 point.

Jasonconfused wrote:
Not that I have a huge problem with short comments on albums, but just an idea.. maybe the word "comment" doesn't have a very formal connotation so people don't necessarily feel compelled to write a full review. Maybe if that section of albums, bands, and songs were changed to be called "reviews" it would maybe be taken a little more seriously. Or maybe not and people will continue to comment for points..

We did discuss at one stage having separate reviews and comments. Maybe this is something worth bringing back to the table, but the informal nature of the comments does help conversation.
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Guest





#18 | Posted: 11/23/2012 14:06 | Post subject: Reply with quote
albummaster wrote:
We did discuss at one stage having separate reviews and comments. Maybe this is something worth bringing back to the table, but the informal nature of the comments does help conversation.


I would enjoy a separate reviews section.
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Robert Anton Wilson
Epic Proghead


Gender: Male
Age: 51
Location: Inside
Canada

#19 | Posted: 12/05/2012 22:30 | Post subject: Reply with quote
There is some sort of a paradox here as people who spam for points are likely people who want to contribute to the site by opening up the site's options.

Data moderation is a delicate thing to do and if people are forced to do it then too many fingers in the pie may actually lead to more work for all, fixing mistakes and whatnot, instead of less if people do it half-assedly. Not to say that spam comments and ratings are not annoying. I feel so guilty for having suggested spamming "I like it" in the comment sections of all album he likes once that i will now cower in my corner and flagellate myself. My experienc has also been that given an extremely low rating to an album I do not like actually tends to raise it in the charts rather then lower it, 5/100 is still 5 more points than 0. It likely does not work that way for albums that do not have hundreds of ratings though. I should listen to more Yugo albums, I tend to like music from these countries, I love Hala Strana but I think it is Bulgarian - or is it Romanian- man am I ever not on the ball tonight.

Dang! Sorry, brain too mushy to elaborate at this time. Must stop moderating BEA until the wee little hours of the morn.
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albummaster
Janitor


Gender: Male
Location: Spain
Site Admin

#20 | Posted: 12/06/2012 10:10 | Post subject: Reply with quote
Robert Anton Wilson wrote:
There is some sort of a paradox here as people who spam for points are likely people who want to contribute to the site by opening up the site's options.

agree, but there are ways people can do this without spamming. Creating a chart is a quick way to gain points. I'm thinking if the points per chart entry was increased to 2 per album, this might help new users gain a foothold without having to resort to black-hat tactics.

Robert Anton Wilson wrote:
Data moderation is a delicate thing to do and if people are forced to do it then too many fingers in the pie may actually lead to more work for all, fixing mistakes and whatnot, instead of less if people do it half-assedly.

I wouldn't want to 'force' people down this route, and this wasn't the intention. I have to say also that the quality of data moderation has vastly exceeded my expectations. It has proven that there are a great many very conscientious people here, and there have been no major issues since this system was introduced.

Robert Anton Wilson wrote:
My experienc has also been that given an extremely low rating to an album I do not like actually tends to raise it in the charts rather then lower it, 5/100 is still 5 more points than 0. It likely does not work that way for albums that do not have hundreds of ratings though.

That's interesting. I'll need to check that out. If a rating is awarded to an item which is below the current average for that item, it should lower the average (provided that the rating is not more than 3 sigma from the existing item average).
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