They can say it's "mostly" in hip-hop, but that's bullshit. It's everywhere across the music spectrum in high frequency. Yes, as Skinny put it, hip-hop lyrics tend to be more direct and forceful, especially about social and cultural issues, so there's less guise to perhaps the misogynistic happenings or even the artist's own intentions in some of the hip-hop songs out there. But that's not saying that when it's frequently hidden in either a female voice or a good-time ol' country-boy anthem that those song's misogyny is any less prevelant- the latter just tend to veil (and perhaps deny and play coy about) it a lot more.
Singling out one scapegoat to try and make an example of the subject and without facts backing it up saying it's the biggest offender does nothing to get to the root of the issue, and for many it's more than a bit culturally and racially offensive to automatically, as many pundits have done in the past, attack hip-hop as the biggest cause of a particular social problem. Now Im not trying to stir up flame bait and fire up a racially-charged discussion here, but I wanna just get it out there that misogyny can be wrapped up in a seemingly harmless package or even, as a lot of producers and industry songwriters are seeming to do these days, have women themselves often sing and promote blatantly misogynistic songs, and it's every bit as bad and every bit as rife in the music (and real, outside) world as when it's spoken through a less-coy, more direct medium.
I was waiting for the racial issue to pop into this. Mostly agree with everything you say. But when you start casually mentioning things like that it is highly offensive withoutany facts to back that up. I dnt want to get into that either but be careful about just dropping that in there because that's bollocks.
How could you measure in an accurate way the misogynist content of all music released, by genre, and compare? Yes impossible. You could subjectively measure the biggest selling artists in each genre and compare but hey, i cant be arsed with that and I'm bored now as I'm sure is everyone.
Good this discussion is here as its an important one and one I'm very interested in as I've been a hip hop fan since around the time of raising hell and i'll just shut up now.
What do think is the answer to this most important question?
I shoudln't know, or I could give what I think a probable answer, but I'm biased too, probably as biased as people researching precisely "mysogyny in hip-hop" for whatever reason.
I'd say pop music sung by males or females is probably the worst culprit of all and while I'm thankfully protected in day to day life from country music I'll take your word that it can be awful for it too.
I don't know how it can be argued that all types of music are equally responsible for it though and acting like it isn't, if not a particular, at least an exaggerated problem in hip hop just seems like head in the sand to me _________________ Shut up mate you're boring!
I dunno, I think I'm gonna keep putting the blame on Brad Paisley. I think criticizing pop stars for being misogynistic is misogynistic in itself. Slut-shaming is not cool, guys.
Also, if you guys really want pop music to be without misogyny, then you should love
Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.
Bangerz by Miley Cyrus
Since it allowed Miley to talk about sex completely free of the male gaze.
Last edited by Applerill on 03/04/2015 13:50; edited 1 time in total
RockyRaccoonIs it solipsistic in here or is it just me?ModeratorProfile Maryland
I don't know how it can be argued that all types of music are equally responsible for it though and acting like it isn't, if not a particular, at least an exaggerated problem in hip hop just seems like head in the sand to me
Agreed. It almost seems that this conversation is becoming "Well hey, it happens in [insert genre here] too!" which seems to be implying that that makes it ok that it's in hip-hop?
Sure, we shouldn't just single out hip-hop as if it's this evil genre of music that hates women while all other forms of music are so kind to them (they're not), but without a doubt it is something that is very prevalent in hip-hop, or perhaps more specifically, gangsta rap. I feel like using hip-hop as a whole is like saying "in rock music", it's too general. Is misogyny an issue in blues? Sure. Is it an issue in hair metal? Unequivocally. Is it an issue in hip-hop? Without a doubt.
The question isn't "does misogyny exist in music", it absolutely does, the question really should be "why does it exist and what should be done to remedy that?" We're spending more time arguing about whether or not the wind is blowing rather than why the wind is blowing. _________________ Progressive Rock
I think it's important that we make this distinction: music can't be misogynistic, only people can be misogynistic. Music is incapable of feeling or expressing, all of that goes on in the artist and listener. So we can pick apart a piece of music and try to decide if the artist was a misogynist, but even if we decide that they are, it doesn't necessarily imply that the public consumed it in that way. And the inverse is true, too. Just because an artist had no misogynistic intentions, that doesn't mean that the message received by most of the public will be completely innocent.
For example, when Sting wrote "Every Breath You Take", he was writing (critically) about stalking. However, judging from how often it's played at proms and on easy listening radio, I'm guessing most of the public didn't interpret it that way. Is his "true" message still subtly influencing people, causing them to view stalking in a more or less favorable light? I think that would be a stretch. However, I would say that the widespread misinterpretation of the song speaks to the misogynistic tendencies of American culture. "Oh can't you see, you belong to me..."
I dunno, I think I'm gonna keep putting the blame on Brad Paisley. I think criticizing pop stars for being misogynistic is misogynistic in itself. Slut-shaming is not cool, guys.
Also, if you guys really want pop music to be without misogyny, then you should love
Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.
Bangerz by Miley Cyrus
Since it allowed Miley to talk about sex completely free of the male gaze.
Apple you amaze me sometimes
But no I think the problem was that it felt like Hip-Hop was being targeted above all others when this thread was started, which kind of brought up uncomfortable cultural dissonance/racial implications, cuz just to take a wild guess a majority of us in this thread are white males, and going specifically after a genre right away where a majority of the artists (at least in the english-speaking world) are African-American does kind of bring up those racial sentiments. Just like bringing up the issue of misogyny in songs sung by female vocalists may bring up a similiar disconnect, as while some may argue that these specific songs are sexist and contributing to a woman-being-controlled-by-men fantasy, others decry speaking out against it as slut-shaming and not allowing a woman to be herself and be sexy if she wants to be. Just like the two-sided coin in that while some may call a hip-hop song misogynistic, others will argue that it was not in itself intended to promote this patriarchal worldview but only portraying the real-world misogyny that's rife in the song's universe.
Yes, it can be a problem in hip-hop, I wasn't trying to say it wasn't... but while a line like "treat her like a prostitute" sung by a man may sound worse than a line like "bang bang into my room, Ill let you have it" sung by a woman, that doesn't mean there isn't an equally misogynistic/women's-sexuality-is-there-for-the-taking slant to both of the lyrics that equally contributes to the wider social problem that can be reflected, but is not grown, in songs like these. And remember- all song lyrics, no matter how blunt they may seem, are subjective, and the interpretation over both the song's meaning and how it may promote a certain idea or how extreme it may be in tone, is purely up to the listener.
RockyRaccoonIs it solipsistic in here or is it just me?ModeratorProfile Maryland
I think it's important that we make this distinction: music can't be misogynistic, only people can be misogynistic. Music is incapable of feeling or expressing, all of that goes on in the artist and listener. So we can pick apart a piece of music and try to decide if the artist was a misogynist, but even if we decide that they are, it doesn't necessarily imply that the public consumed it in that way. And the inverse is true, too. Just because an artist had no misogynistic intentions, that doesn't mean that the message received by most of the public will be completely innocent.
I would say that's definitely an important distinction to make. Music is one of the few things that exists that is presented in a pure form. The only meaning music in and of itself has is the context it is given by either the creator or the listener (or both).
Quote:
For example, when Sting wrote "Every Breath You Take", he was writing (critically) about stalking. However, judging from how often it's played at proms and on easy listening radio, I'm guessing most of the public didn't interpret it that way. Is his "true" message still subtly influencing people, causing them to view stalking in a more or less favorable light? I think that would be a stretch. However, I would say that the widespread misinterpretation of the song speaks to the misogynistic tendencies of American culture. "Oh can't you see, you belong to me..."
In my experience, the misinterpretation comes from a few things: 1. Sting has a pretty voice, 2. The song is slow, 3. People don't listen closely to the lyrics. All of these come together and people think it's a love song or something because they here "Every breath you take" and "you belong to me" and they go "oh it's a love song" without thinking too hard about it. I do think the way the song is presented musically affects that though. If that song was sung by, say, someone with Alice Cooper's voice and inflection as opposed to Sting's soft, pretty soprano, it would sound immeasurably creepier and that misinterpretation might not have happened. That's just a guess though. _________________ Progressive Rock
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