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videoheadcleaner
formerly Harkan
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  • #1
  • Posted: 07/10/2011 13:24
  • Post subject: Combining artists
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This has probably been mentioned before.

I just added Flowers' Icehouse to my list (might be there for a while) and the band actually changed names to Icehouse with their next album Primitive Man.

Is there any way to combine them or should Flowers become Icehouse?
albummaster
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  • #2
  • Posted: 07/10/2011 13:28
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Yes, a way to do it might be to make Flowers a parent of Icehouse (some other bands are treated that way too if the band members are the same etc).

EDIT: Updated - http://www.besteveralbums.com/thechart.php?b=1212
videoheadcleaner
formerly Harkan
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  • Posted: 07/10/2011 23:58
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Great work again. Thanks!
purple
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  • Posted: 07/11/2011 04:36
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I think it would be awesome to include links to other projects that artists have been included in (e.g. link on the Can page to Holger Czukay, Jah Wobble, and Jaki Leibzeit's Full Circle). But I believe that once an artist changes it's name, the albums produced under that name should only be included in the explicit artist's catalogue (e.g. albums produced under the Flower's and Icehouse's names should only be Flower and Icehouse albums exclusively). There's a reason artist's change their name, even if the same members are included, and that should be respected (e.g. artistic direction, sound, etc)
albummaster
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  • Posted: 07/11/2011 06:45
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yes, I kind of agree because the the site started out doing what you have just said, but it led to a few situations where it was not always the right thing to do.

This thread debated the issue in depth and set out some guidelines for dealing with the exceptions: http://www.besteveralbums.com/phpBB2/vi...p;start=10

As a result, we now have acts like Band of Gypsys attributed to Jimi Hendtrix, Bob Marley (with and without The Wailers), Iggy Pop (with and without The Stooges) etc which have created a kind of precedent for harkan's request.

I think Icehouse and Flowers fall into the grey area that was highlighted when we tried to define the guidelines originally:

albummaster wrote:

There are exceptions to these 'rules' and we need to clarify what to do here because they could cause problems further down the line with the consistency of the site if we start to go down this route.

People like Richard James etc perform under very different names (should all of their albums be listed under their real name, or their 'best known' name e.g. Aphex Twin?)

A similar example is Gorillaz - should projects like this, where they do not use the person's name (Damon Albarn), but are a single person's project, still appear under the solo artist's name or should they be listed separately as their own entry?

A slightly different example here is Cat Stevens and Yusuf Islam where the performing name is completely different but he is still performing under his 'real' name (and not a 'group' name). People would expect to see his whole discography in one place (listed under one of the names - but which one?!). However, I'm not sure if that is true with Gorillaz or Aphex Twin where the group name is not named after the performer.


In terms of dealing with Flowers and Icehouse, the guidelines didn't cover this adequately. and I think something should be added so that, going forwards, BEA deal with these types of request more consistently.

So, maybe this is a chance to clarify it further? I agree, it is not perfect at the moment.
videoheadcleaner
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  • Posted: 07/11/2011 07:42
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from liner notes of Icehouse (30th Anniversary Edition):

'However, there was a complication - the name Flowers was owned and used by other people and we had to go through a name change in 1981. We became ICEHOUSE.'

In the case of causing confusion, these artists should be combined. Mind you, no-one has added an album by The Flowers. 'Icehouse' was the only album Flowers produced before becoming Icehouse. The link needs to be there so duplicate albums don't appear.

Artists links like on RYM might be an idea. Another example is Kate Miller-Heidke's new project, Fatty Gets A Stylist. The only difference between her as a solo artist and the project is the name (as her husband is the other part of the duo). If there was an artist link, it might solve a few issues.

On a side note: Jack White's project The Raconteurs is called the Saboteurs in Australia due to a name clash with an existing Aussie band. I guess there needs to be a link (if these two artists existed on the site) to avoid confusion.
albummaster
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  • Posted: 07/11/2011 08:18
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that's fine and maybe that helps to define the missing guideline. Perhaps something like this:

Code:
5. If an artist renames their act and the name change is not for artistic reasons and the act still consists of the same performing members, their albums will be separately attributed and the original (parent) act will be awarded credit for all of their albums.


RE: The Raconteurs. Yes, we need something else to deal with pseudonyms for the same act. BEA doesn't have that at the moment.
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