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| Poll: Which album is better? |
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| Oceanic |
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86% |
[13] |
| Anthology IV: The Tragedy Of Nerak |
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13% |
[2] |
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| Total Votes : 15 |
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| Author |
Message |
- #11
- Posted: 11/24/2016 23:22
- Post subject:
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| Gowi wrote: | | Not to be patronizing, but there’s little to nothing representing sludge metal on this release |
I could agree if you were talking about later Isis or other atmospheric sludge bands, but Oceanic has still much sludge in, imo.
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mickilennial
The Most Trusted Name in News
Gender: Female
Age: 36
Location: Detroit 
- #12
- Posted: 11/25/2016 05:09
- Post subject:
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Well, there are certainly sludge riffs on Oceanic, but that is really about it when it comes down to it— the drumming is more subdued and has more to do with the growing styles used in post-rock than the d-beat pressure of sludge drumming, and the vocals still have the anger and discontent but they are drawn out at times to feel more melodramatically emotive which I connect more with emotive hardcore bands than sludge ones.
There are only six songs that have anything reminiscent of sludge identity and none of them are for the duration of the entire song; preferring to turn the album into what makes atmospheric sludge a precursor to post-metal with flowerly progressions, slow/soft segments that aren’t particularly interesting or useful, and nuances that just makes certain songs drop out from being energetic, dynamic, and fun into trying to make some sort of emotional structure. These six songs have okay moments, but I struggle listening to this album for the same reasons I stated in my other posts and this one, I get bored and disinterested with something that is the antithesis of what sludge is about and what it still sort of represented in 2002.
If you are curious the six songs that had sludge moments, I documented thusly— The Other (3:11-4:20), False Light (0:01-2:59), Carry (4:15-6:46), Weight (9:25-10:00), From Sinking (0:01-4:24), and Hym (2:29-4:37)
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- #13
- Posted: 11/25/2016 14:37
- Post subject:
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| Gowi wrote: | | Well, there are certainly sludge riffs on Oceanic, but that is really about it when it comes down to it— the drumming is more subdued and has more to do with the growing styles used in post-rock than the d-beat pressure of sludge drumming, and the vocals still have the anger and discontent but they are drawn out at times to feel more melodramatically emotive which I connect more with emotive hardcore bands than sludge ones. |
Sludge metal drumming is not necessarily d-beat, it depends. But yeah, ofc it's still an atmospheric sludge album and not a traditional sludge one. Still, while other atm sludge albums i've heard sounded overall closer to post rock than to sludge, i think Oceanic is perfectly balanced between the two components. Well, if you totally dislike the atmospheric work in this genre it's normal that you don't like it. But it's unfair to call it the antithesis of the genre.
| Gowi wrote: | | slow/soft segments that aren’t particularly interesting or useful |
Well that's about taste. I can tell you f.e. that the first minutes of "Carry", with all their atmosphere, really are beautiful and useful for me as they enhance the overall sense of desolation i get from the album.
As for the parts of the songs you listed, i think you are taking it too strictly. Sure some parts are more heavy and some are more atmospheric, but there's crossover between the two. They cohexist and complement each other to make the album what it is. It can be appreciated or not.
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mickilennial
The Most Trusted Name in News
Gender: Female
Age: 36
Location: Detroit
- #14
- Posted: 11/25/2016 15:16
- Post subject:
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| Quote: | | i think Oceanic is perfectly balanced between the two components |
And I exactly disagree and I explained why with the song references and my central dialogue. There isn’t enough sludge elements to justify it being “balanced”— it has more arthouse atmospherics (aka post-rock and ambient influences) than it has sludge percussion, tone, riffwork, or energy. I honestly do not know what more to say before I turn into repeating myself. This isn’t a circular argument, I’m actually giving supporting evidence.
| Quote: | | But it's unfair to call it the antithesis of the genre. |
No, it’s not unfair if you understand the perspective of the opinion. I have never deliberated it as fact so I suggest you not imply that I have. I have very elaborately gone to explain my opinions on Oceanic— and by extension Isis and Atmospheric Sludge Metal, it is unfair to purposely regard what I have put the time in explaining as essentially purposeless.
| Quote: | | Well that's about taste. |
I’m sorry but… no fucking shit? Did I say somewhere that my analysis was objective or factual? No? Then don’t bother with these kind of phrases at all, it cheapens the dialogue.
| Quote: | | As for the parts of the songs you listed, i think you are taking it too strictly. |
Yes. That’s the point of stating an analysis based on my experiences, preferences, and understanding of the root genre. The whole idea of that part of my reply is exactly that I am looking at it from an “orthodox” or “purist” angle and that for me these are the reasons why it is not good or enjoyable— I am not fucking preaching to you like genres are rigid fucking rulebooks, I am not telling anyone they cannot enjoy something, and I am definitely not going on a tirade based on fact.
| Quote: | | It can be appreciated or not. |
Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.
Look. You either need to drop this before I get exponentially more upset or actually understand what I’m conveying during my whole dialogue. I came into this giving a neutral perspective of why I think Oceanic isn’t a good album for me and I would never vote for it— blue replied to me and a conversation was elaborated on. This was never me telling people to not like or find Oceanic interesting for their personal taste and it is really patronizing to come at me with these points that I never implied, stated, or intended in my damn posts. So cut the “well that’s just an opinion” bullshit. To pull one out of an older BEA member’s playbook— I do not have to put “in my opinion” at the end of every fucking post I make and I refuse to do so.
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cestuneblague
Eyebrow of the Hurricane
Location: Chi-Town
- #15
- Posted: 11/25/2016 16:01
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Don't start a riot, boys
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NoisyBeast
Lefty
Gender: Male
Location: Phoenix 
- #16
- Posted: 11/26/2016 05:17
- Post subject:
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| Quote: | | I'd be curious to hear about some sludge metal you find better than Oceanic. |
...going back to the origins of sludge metal; Side two of "My War" at least earns "proto-sludge" status, or punk-influenced sludge metal.
Thumbnail. Click to enlarge.
My War by Black Flag
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- #17
- Posted: 11/26/2016 12:25
- Post subject:
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| Gowi wrote: | | before I get exponentially more upset |
More than this? 
Seriously though, i'm sorry, i didnt mean to get you upset. I think you misunderstood the tone of my post. Considering what you've written it seems you took my whole post as a "shut up, that's just your opinion!" while it wasn't supposed to be like that. It was more like "i can totally get that you don't like it, considering you're a purist of the genre and all". And i was stating my opinion of it being balanced basing on a comparison with other albums, but nevermind this now. I never said or implied you were telling people to not like it or such things, really.
Also i thought our discussion was interesting, i'm sorry if you founded it the opposite.
Ps: sorry everyone for the OT and also for the delay, i've been busy yesterday afternoon and i was out with no connection last night.
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babyBlueSedan
Used to be sort of blind, now can sort of see
Gender: Male
- #18
- Posted: 11/27/2016 15:35
- Post subject:
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Oceanic wins 13-1
_________________
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