All four of those are new to me. Mayhem is the only band I'm familiar with at all. But after seeing this I listened to Streetcleaner last night and really liked it.
Edit: Just saw the updates. Kinda sad to see Black Sabbath's albums that low. Hoping their debut, which is my personal favorite of theirs, a little bit higher. Also curious if Heaven and Hell might be more your cup of tea.
Nice, Im looking forward to those as well.
Just remember that 7/10 is not low on my ratings at all. Might take some getting used to since lots of people seem to apply 7/10 to mediocre albums. On my scale its "superb" or "borderline extraordinary" (the closer it is to 7.3) -- just not AMAZING etc. Its easiest to think with when one looks at the albums in the echelon above it, and the next, and so forth (particularly in looking at those one agrees with/feels similarly about).
Well yeah, that's what I was getting at. I understand your rating system is harsh but looking at some of the stuff above it is what I was feeling. I mean I guess it's pretty cliche to say since they're arguably the first and most universally acclaimed metal band, but I truly feel they're the GOATs. Their first 6 albums are just as good a 6 album run as almost any artist in history, metal or otherwise (some exceptions may incude Led Zeppelin's first 6 or Bob Dylan's 2nd through 7th). I may make a metal chart once I brush up on it a little more, and it would be hard not to put 4 of their albums in my top 25. But I understand taste is subjective as well; but as big a part of my childhood as Korn were I don't see them in the same league. Given, my rating scale isn't nearly as harsh so my rating for Korn would probably be about the same as yours, but Sabbath's first two would be 10/10
Hmmmmm... Personally, I am not sure how (with scrutiny) one could feel they were superior to Metallica's first 5 albums. Master of Puppets is quite clearly (imo) more astonishing in all regards, Sabbath being less impressive technically, compositionally, expressively. ... As for a 10 -- I mean, a 10/10 (for me) is something that is unobtainable to all but the greatest artists in history. Something that (regardless of genre) produces the following quite literally: ...a work that would be overwhelmingly miraculous, and would tend to leave one astounded, moved and struck by waves of epiphany throughout the experience towards a seemingly inexhaustible ingenuity, staggering emotional depth and conceptual significance.
Sabbath is not of the order of genius and execution that could possibly produce a work of such magnitude/impact/significance. Not a knock on them; there are only a very small number of artists in history that could.
Korn and Sabbath are very different of course. Simply put though, Korn is a more riveting and quite a bit more emotionally intense, psychologically immersive experience.
Sabbath was the blueprint but their art culminated with Metallica (imo), particularly Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets -- and (in some regards) Led Zeppelin and Soundgarden (and others). _________________ Best Classical Best Films Best Paintings
@badseed ... plus anyone else that wants to share their view...
Do you think Superunknown qualifies (genre-wise) for this list? It's a tough call -- I'm torn... _________________ Best Classical Best Films Best Paintings
RoundTheBendI miss the comfort in being sadProfile Ground Control
@badseed ... plus anyone else that wants to share their view...
Do you think Superunknown qualifies (genre-wise) for this list? It's a tough call -- I'm torn...
Badmotorfinger is much more Metal. Although if you want something within the Washington "grunge" canon that could be considered metal, then I would go with...
It could go both ways with Superunknown. I mean, I probably agree with you but then I listen to it and wonder... They are right on the border, basically a darker, heavier, more grungy Zeppelin -- right on the cusp between Zeppelin and Heavy Metal. At various points it certainly echoes and/or becomes "sludge metal" and much of the rest is walking a very fine line.
sethmadsen wrote:
Also, you must voyage to the land of Scandinavia for the best metal, so I'm told from most metal heads I know.
I've heard some examples and wouldnt be surprised if some (several?) made my lists as I get more acclimated to them, and also more firmly adjust my evaluations to the genre and its developments, which I am working on as I revise/update this list... _________________ Best Classical Best Films Best Paintings
@badseed ... plus anyone else that wants to share their view...
Do you think Superunknown qualifies (genre-wise) for this list? It's a tough call -- I'm torn...
Badmotorfinger is much more Metal. Although if you want something within the Washington "grunge" canon that could be considered metal, then I would go with...
Thanks, Ive heard a bit of the Melvins. Think it was the monolithic Ozma and one of their later efforts, but Ill have to check this one out. _________________ Best Classical Best Films Best Paintings
Has anyone else heard Dødheimsgard's A Umbra Omega (2015)? (even better if you've listened to it enough to really absorb it) It's an Avant-Garde Metal album that I've been checking out sporadically since its release (approx 5-6 times total). I am wondering if any metal buffs/fans have an opinion on it and if it has any direct predecessors, whether from the same band or another avant-garde/progressive metal band. It sounds pretty original to me (something like a combo between a more introverted Slow Deep and Hard and Van Der Graaf Generator's Pawn Hearts) ... but I have not yet delved into Metal extensively enough to be sure. _________________ Best Classical Best Films Best Paintings
RoundTheBendI miss the comfort in being sadProfile Ground Control
It could go both ways with Superunknown. I mean, I probably agree with you but then I listen to it and wonder... They are right on the border, basically a darker, heavier, more grungy Zeppelin -- right on the cusp between Zeppelin and Heavy Metal. At various points it certainly echoes and/or becomes "sludge metal" and much of the rest is walking a very fine line.
I've heard some examples and wouldnt be surprised if some (several?) made my lists as I get more acclimated to them, and also more firmly adjust my evaluations to the genre and its developments, which I am working on as I revise/update this list...
RE: Soundgarden's Superunknown
Yeah for sure, it has a touch of metal to it. But you could say that about some Smashing Pumpkins work too. It's just the last descriptor I would use. Sure there are secondary or tertiary descriptors of the album as such. In the end I won't split hairs or care, just giving my opinion.
Also Led Zeppelin themselves are considered by some as some of the pioneers of metal, but to me that only makes sense at a very proto metal stance only to the effect that they wrote harder hitting rock. I mean You might as well through in some of the Beatles work into that as well and they literally are the last band I'd associate with metal. It just becomes a slippery slope in my opinion. Is Jimi Hendrix metal... if Led Zeppelin is, why not Jimi?
Furthermore, I'm sure there are plenty of metal heads that could give you higher quality metal than you'd get from Led Zeppelin or even Soundgarden for that matter, but I'm really saying all this as an outsider.
It could go both ways with Superunknown. I mean, I probably agree with you but then I listen to it and wonder... They are right on the border, basically a darker, heavier, more grungy Zeppelin -- right on the cusp between Zeppelin and Heavy Metal. At various points it certainly echoes and/or becomes "sludge metal" and much of the rest is walking a very fine line.
I've heard some examples and wouldnt be surprised if some (several?) made my lists as I get more acclimated to them, and also more firmly adjust my evaluations to the genre and its developments, which I am working on as I revise/update this list...
RE: Soundgarden's Superunknown
Yeah for sure, it has a touch of metal to it. But you could say that about some Smashing Pumpkins work too. It's just the last descriptor I would use. Sure there are secondary or tertiary descriptors of the album as such. In the end I won't split hairs or care, just giving my opinion.
Also Led Zeppelin themselves are considered by some as some of the pioneers of metal, but to me that only makes sense at a very proto metal stance only to the effect that they wrote harder hitting rock. I mean You might as well through in some of the Beatles work into that as well and they literally are the last band I'd associate with metal. It just becomes a slippery slope in my opinion. Is Jimi Hendrix metal... if Led Zeppelin is, why not Jimi?
Furthermore, I'm sure there are plenty of metal heads that could give you higher quality metal than you'd get from Led Zeppelin or even Soundgarden for that matter, but I'm really saying all this as an outsider.
Maybe you didnt mean the description entirely literally but Superunknown has much more than a touch of metal to it. If it shouldn't be included, its still awfully close.
Yes, prior to Sabbath, Zepp were probably the closest predecessors of what was being established for its sound at the time.
Not sure why The Beatles are used in parallel to these examples except for a few min of their career. As you say, "one of the last bands..." Comparing Soundgarden (or Zeppelin) to Metal is a much more apt relation. Soundgarden has several songs and albums that either are Metal or closely approximate it. Zeppelin developed a huge, heavy, hysterical blues and massive sense of rhythm and percussion, including epileptic fits of instrumentation (along with Hendrix, Cream, Yardbirds...) that was a major touchstone for the genre.
But yes, I do probably agree that Superunknown falls just short of the genre and that it (and genres in general) are a slippery slope.
At least one or two from Mr Bungle's discography should probably be on here. The self-titled is the only one I've relistened to lately (7.5/10 for me) but I remember Disco Volante and California being brilliant too.
Primus' Frizzle Fry is possibly my favourite album of all time (8.5 at least). The two albums after that are highly recommended too.
Atheist's Unquestionable Presence is amazing, an 8/10 for me.
Katatonia's Brave Murder Day is quite solid, a 7/10 at least.
Gorguts' Obscura is brutal as hell, should be 7.5 or 8.
The run from Sepultura's third to sixth albums is great, I'd rank them Arise > Beneath the Remains > Roots > Chaos AD (all of them around 7 or 7.5) although I'd have to relisten to be sure. Try listening to all of these without looking at Scaruffi's page and then guessing his ratings. You might be surprised. Or not, because you're apparently on the same wavelength as him most of the time.
You'll probably like Slipknot's first two albums, solid stuff.
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