BYHH GW1: Group C - 1999 vs. 2017

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Poll: Which team do you prefer?
1999:
72%
 72%  [13]
2017:
27%
 27%  [5]
Total Votes : 18

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Tha1ChiefRocka wrote:
It took me until today to realize the first time that I had heard Mos Def's "Mathematics".

Madden 2002.

I had no recollection that the song was used for that game until I was reading about it today after relistening to one of, not just favorite rap albums of all-time, but favorite albums period. If this were my own record that I was repping, then I might write a long-winded review, but I thought that I would just share that tidbit at least.

I'll still remember this being one of the first socially-aware lyrics to ever catch my attention in a song.

"Young teens and prison greens facing life numbers
Crack mothers, crack babies, and AIDS patients
Young bloods can't spell but they could rock you at PlayStation"


My plan was to do this for all of my picks, but this one is proving elusive. It's such a well-worn, well-loved, well-discussed classic that it seems redundant attempting to add to an already overcrowded discourse. There's nothing left to say about it that others haven't already said much more powerfully than I can. I will try to put something together, but I've started a couple of times already and nothing is sticking. I began jotting a piece regarding the first time I saw the 'Ms. Fat Booty' video, but the story was long and unwieldy and full of laughably mundane details, so that got binned. Maybe I'll stick it on with a few brews after work and try again.

What is there to say about Black on Both Sides that hasn’t been said a million times before, a million times better, by people a million times more qualified than myself? It’s a stone cold classic which has earned the respect and adoration of listeners from across the musical spectrum, and a record that sounds just as fresh and vital today as it did when it was first released over two decades ago. It’s an album that is steeped in the history of Black music (it makes explicit reference, either through lyrics or samples, to slave spirituals, Thelonious Monk and Dizzy Gillespie, Aretha Franklin, James Brown, Fela Kuti, Roy Ayers, Gil Scott-Heron, Gregory Isaacs and Burning Spear, Sade, dancehall toasters, even Bad Brains, among countless others), and particularly hip-hop, an album full of gratitude and reverence, but an album which stubbornly forges its own path regardless. It’s an album with a clear social conscience that never relies on smarmy preachiness or aimless abstraction; a masterclass in lyrics and flow which nevertheless refuses to resort to ostentatious thrills to get its point across; an immediately accessible, often catchy record that never dumbs down its message or sound to pander to a wider audience; a record whose sonic palette is learned and undoubtedly tasteful, but never boring. It is unapologetic and purposeful, beautifully crafted and endlessly listenable. It is the reason that, despite a series of largely disappointing experiments since, fans still get excited at the mere suggestion that Yasiin Bey (née Mos Def) might be working on new music again, the reason we still hold out hope that the old Mos may reveal himself again, if only briefly. Put simply, it’s a masterpiece. But you already knew that.

How to put a new spin on this album then? I can’t. I could cite the lyrical callbacks to Rakim, A Tribe Called Quest, Brand Nubian, Wu-Tang, Spoonie Gee, et al, as proof of its scholarly allegiance to the hip-hop legends that came before it, proof of its quasi-religious devotion to hip-hop culture, but nobody ever accused Mos of not being steeped in the classics. I could mention its organic and wildly successful dalliances with the then-burgeoning neo-soul sound, on ‘Climb’ and the timeless ‘UMI Says’, in order to emphasise its author’s effortless melodicism, but it’s blatantly obvious to anybody with ears that Mos is a naturally musical rapper. I could even talk about the album’s seamless sequencing, the way that every song here is carefully and deliberately placed in exactly the right slot for maximum effect, so that the album is coherent from start to finish without ever settling in one place for too long, but one of the tricks to almost any great album is making sure that it can be listened to from start to finish without feeling the need to pick up the needle and drop it elsewhere. I could talk about the album’s celebratory Afrocentricity, but as a white man it’s not my place; I could talk about its central thesis that hip-hop, like The Bible before it, is not some stagnant text which cannot be altered, rather whatever its users – the creators and the listeners alike – make of it, but spelling it out in stuffy, yawn-inducing detail would only be doing Mos a disservice; I could talk about his career before and since, about the full circle his acting has taken, about the artistic growth from Black Star to this, but Wikipedia is just a click away. Instead, I’ll just implore you to find this album, on vinyl, on CD, on your streaming service of choice, and press play. It still sounds as great as that first time you heard it. It’s still that ageless classic of Black music, in constant, contagious conversation with its forebears, with its own distinctive sound and vision. It’s one of very few hip-hop albums that I would wholeheartedly recommend to both my dad, and to my 15-year-old cousin, without caveat. Its appeal is broad, and its message(s) universal. Do yourself a favour and remind yourself just how good it is.
_________________
2021 in full effect. Come drop me some recs. Y'all know what I like.
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Well I'm glad you wrote that. Thanks.
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Mos Def - Black on Both Sides
Second listen and was a little surprised on how much of a rock influence it had and why did I not pick that up the first time. Anyway this album is pretty damn awesome, but I personally don't connect with it somehow at a high level pretty better than just good though for sure. (2.5).
Crooked Lettaz - Grey Skies
Wow... so many good lines. Somehow the lyrics on this one really got me. I don't know what made this so specially lyrically to get my attention... maybe because nearly every lyric was amazing. (3)
Eminem - My Name Is
It's stylistically interesting for sure, regardless of what you think of the dude. (2.5).
Ol' Dirty Bastard - Got Your Money (ft. Kelis)
First listen... I didn't even notice I listened to it... so now I'm re-listening to it. Oh... now I'm hearing that lyric Skinny quoted. I've dug his voice in times past. Somehow this track is just good (2).

vs.

Quelle Chris - Being You Is Great, I Wish I Could Be You More Often
(2.5) - I like this considerably more than his Guns release. Dunno, lots of great backing tracks and creative lyrics and the such. I didn't pick that up with Guns somehow.
Roc Marciano - Rosebudd's Revenge (2.5)
Kendrick Lamar - DNA (3)
Lil Uzi Vert - XO Tour Llif3 (1.5)

99= 2.5 3 2.5 2 =10
2017= 2.5 2.5 3 1.5 =9.5

Man that was close and I learned to really like Quelle Chris (as explained my initial exploration with him wasn't as appealing), and Roc Marciano, who I almost gave a 3 for the first half of the album, but dragged it down to a 2.5 for it.

If it weren't for my dislike of Lil Uzi Vert (which actually according to the rest of the world is one of the biggest singles ever), AND if I didn't fall in love with Grey Skies somehow, then this would've possibly tipped to 2017. Super close, but I guess 99 takes it.


Last edited by RoundTheBend on 01/09/2021 04:35; edited 1 time in total
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Very happy to see that, if nothing else, I've turned a couple of users into Crooked Lettaz fans. Grey Skies deserves so much more respect and attention than it gets.
_________________
2021 in full effect. Come drop me some recs. Y'all know what I like.
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'99 for an irresistable Mos Def, ODB + Kelis, and a great new listen for me in Crooked Lettaz... My Name Is almost brought it down though
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A Girl Named Cim and Caught In The Game are great cuts. That record definitely got buried in the dirty south movement— some stuff on there that's as good as anything Goodie Mobb, Three 6 Mafia and Bone Thugs-N-Harmony whipped up. Going off of a DOOM binge, everything's coming across as a smidge repetitive, but that might just be my state of mind (ear?) right now. Appreciate the showcase.

All that aside, '99's hardest hitter on the team is undoubtedly Black On Both Sides. I'm not going to pretend it's not the best album on the board— it just... is— but I'd put Quelle Chris and Marciano in 2nd and 3rd, and I'd take my '17 singles over My Name Is or Get Your Money any day. There's merit to both, but they're kinda novelty comedy/pop rap, no matter how nostalgia-stuffed. Nothing wrong with that, but they just aren't really in my queue at any given time. I'd back DNA alongside anything Kendrick's ever done, and I don't think there's been too many cloud rap tracks as strong as XO Tour Llif3, if any. I wouldn't blame people for saying this is a tough match— it is— but I'm happy with my team. This might just boil down to what mood people are in.
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Each side of this match-up has a huge personal favorite for me. For 1999, it's Black on Both Sides. I wrote about it on this page of my overall chart, and if there's one part of that review that I really want to highlight it's how timeless this album feels to me. I actually think this one might be a little underrated, which I know is a ridiculous thing to say about such a well-regarded album. But I'm not sure I ever hear it regarded as a genre classic like Illmatic or Ready to Die is, and I think one reason for that is it doesn't really belong to a discernable scene or movement. I think it would have sounded natural coming out in the early 90's and would even hold its own if it came out today. A big part of that is that the production feels so pristine, thanks in large part to the live instruments on many tracks. It doesn't sound at all dated, if anything (like a lot of art about the black experience in America, and I know this is cliche to say) it sounds almost more important today than ever. There's a track on this album called "Hip Hop," and that feels so appropriate given that this album both reveres the genre of the past but is constantly trying to push the genre into new directions. It's an album that everyone should hear, and one that I don't listen to nearly enough.

For 2017, the personal favorite is "XO Tour Llif3." I haven't been able to get much into the Soundcloud emo rap scene, but this song is a massive exception to that. I can remember when this track came out and I spun that visualizer of Lil Uzi Vert smoking while driving on repeat while being just enthralled by this song. I think it's a perfect combination of an absolutely towering melodic hook and rapping that keeps you on your toes with the switches in flows between the verses. Lyrically Uzi paints a depressingly grim picture with some tremendous imagery, and unlike a lot of his contemporaries he stays focused mostly inwards and avoids blaming or shaming the woman in the song. I'm not sure I've even heard another Lil Uzi Vert song, but this one is the first song on my "Jamz" playlist on Spotify.

As for my thoughts on the rest of this match-up:

- Grey Skies: First time hearing about this one, and I agree with others that this is a great find. Southern hip hop is a genre I need to listen to more, and the beats here are great, as is the shared rapping of the two MCs.

- My Name Is: There are songs on The Slim Shady LP that make me sick to my stomach (and not in a good way) but I actually like this one quite a bit. Eminem shows off his rapping skills and is pretty funny on this, even if I still feel he's pushing buttons just to push buttons a bit.

- Got Your Money: ODB was once my favorite member of the Wu-Tang Clan, and while today I prefer him more in brief moments on that group's songs than on tracks of his own, this one is a hit with his humor clearing shining through.

- Quelle Chris: Like ODB, Quelle Chris is someone who's humor and cleverness I really enjoy. Unlike ODB, I don't enjoy his rapping much. I liked Guns quite a bit but could never get into this one. Even on Guns I find his flow a bit hard to listen to in a way I can't quite describe; a combination of his voice and the way it interacts with his beats just makes it a bit hard to follow. Definitely an album I wish I liked more than I do.

- Rosebudd's Revenge: This was a first listen and my first time listening to a full project from Marciano. I listened to a few tracks from him before and couldn't get into them, and to be honest I found this album a bit hard to get through. Marciano is a terrific writer, and I really enjoy reading his lyrics, but I just don't enjoy listening to them. I think this is just a me problem; he sounds a little uninterested in his rapping, but I think you could say something similar about Ka or MF DOOM at times and I enjoy both of those artists. That lack of energy combined with somewhat repetitive flows just made this take a lot of energy to listen to somehow. The beats are great though.

- DNA: Obviously a tremendous song, though it's actually not one of my favorites from DAMN. The second half of it, after the beat switch, is a great showcase of Kendrick's skills, but I think he showed those skills off better on a track like FEEL where he made it seem a lot more effortless. I also prefer a lot of the poppier songs - GOD, LOVE, and even HUMBLE - but that's not really a fair critique here since not all of those songs were eligible for this. I guess overall I'd say it's a song I recognize as very good but not one that I commonly return to outside of listening to the album. Love the video though.

Overall I think this is a pretty easy vote for 1999 since the 2017 albums don't hit for me.
_________________
And it's hard to be a human being. And it's harder as anything else.
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Mos Def - Black on Both Sides is an album I' ve always had the impression that it has achieved an "almost classic" status, which is a shame, as I don't think there is anything that separates it from the widely accepted classics. I was browsing through various relevant online articles/lists etc. and sadly my suspicion was confirmed for the most part. Maybe it has to do with what babyBlueSedan pointed out, that it's hard to include it in a sub-group inside the hip hop umbrella, maybe it has to do with the course of his career further down the road and his acting shenanigans, or maybe his music is just "too black" to be universally acclaimed. Anyway, not much needs to be said about the defining attributes of this album. The production is top notch, his delivery is practically flawless, but the main function both of these aspects serve is that they allow his lyrics to come through, so that the message can reach the audience loud and clear. Fear Not of Man is an ideal example of this - and of my two favorite moments of the album. It's a case of more speaking than rapping and gives us some of his best -and not only his, to be honest -lyrics. He begins by wondering about the future of hip hop and I really like the way he explains it is closely tied to the future of our civilisation/society and how humans have lost their focus, no matter if they are hip hop artists or regular citizens ("tell em, "You know what's gonna happen with hip-hop? Whatever's happening with us" If we smoked out, hip-hop is gonna be smoked out If we doin' alright, hip-hop is gonna be doin' alright People talk about hip-hop like it's some giant livin' in the hillside Comin' down to visit the townspeople We are hip-hop Me, you, everybody, we are hip-hop So hip-hop is going where we going So the next time you ask yourself where hip-hop is going Ask yourself: where am I going? How am I doing? Till you get a clear idea So if hip-hop is about the people And the hip-hop won't get better until the people get better Then how do people get better? (Hmm) Well, from my understanding people get better When they start to understand that they are valuable And they not valuable because they got a whole lot of money Or 'cause somebody, think they sexy"). Also noteworthy is the use of a sample from Nigerian Afrobeat artist Fela Kuti. Then comes Hip Hop , where he expands on the same theme and further reflects on the duty of the artist to communicate his ideas and raise the political awareness of his audience ("Young man, where you from? Brooklyn number one! Native son, speaking in the native tongue I got my eyes on tomorrow (there it is) While you still tryin to find where it is I'm on the Ave where it lives and dies, violently but silently Shine so vibrantly that eyes squint to catch a glimpse Embrace the bass with my dark ink fingertips"). Love changes the scenery a little bit with a jazzy/bluesy tune and -as expected- stresses the important of love -not only its romantic side, any kind of love. A minor complaint would be that the outro drags unnecessarily. Ms. Fat Booty is another huge track, though I sometimes feel that the tremendously powerful and captivating Aretha Franklin vocal sample overshadows anything else that's going on in this song. By no means does this make it any less enjoyable, I mention it mostly because it's one of the few occasions where the lyrics may remain into the background. Speed Law is a song with a rockier vibe. Lyrics-wise it's not one of my favorites, as it comes dangerously close to becoming one of those typical self-praising songs -but it keeps the balance, as it's more substance than style, while in this kind of songs it's usually the other way around -, plus the outro felt somewhat repetitive. Do It Now features Busta Rhymes, a great guest ("Take the arch rivalry stance up on the podium And give the flavor to niggas but keep it low on sodium Possess shit that got you wondering how we holdin em Things that'll lay you out like a piece of linoleum") and his chemistry with Mos Def is on a very high level. Got is my least favorite song of the album, it gets annoyingly repetitive. Not much to comment on UMI Says, he says it best himself ("Put my heart and soul into this song I hope you feel me From where I am, to wherever you are I mean that sincerely Tomorrow may never come For you and me, life is not promised Tomorrow may never appear You better hold this very moment very close to you Very close to you, so close to you So close to you, don't be afraid, just let it shine"). It's almost impossible not to be moved by his passion. New World Water is a song about water -thank you captain obvious- that can be interpreted in different levels, either directly related to environmental consciousness or to the underlying sociopolitical causes of water pollution and how the transformation of the human nature leads to the deterioration of our natural environment ("Used to have minerals and zinc in it (New World Water) Now they say it got lead and stink in it (New World Water)"). In Rock N Roll I'm not sure if the concept is flawed to begin with , or if it has to do more with the execution. However, the last minute frenzy was great. Know That begins with a Star Wars reference -can't go wrong with one of those. It is one of the funkiest tunes and features Talib Kweli ("Intellectual property I got the title and the deed I pay for rent, with the tears and sweat and what I bleed MCs imitate the way we walk, the way we talk You cats spit lyrical pork with no spiritual thought Plus your flow a little bit off You come across soft Back in the days niggas like that on stage got tossed off Need to get crossed off the guestlist It's like you gotta be disrespected and thrown out the exit To get the message"). Along with the opening track they are my two favorite moments of the album. Considering the competition, that's quite an achievement. Climb might seem weird or even a bit off as a standalone song, but in the context of the album provides a welcome change of pace, relaxing the listener after the highly energetic previous track and makes for a smooth transition to Brooklyn, which also has a chill jazzy atmosphere. Habitat takes another stab at tackling the problem of social injustice and inequality ("Partner, all that's left to want is more While these cats that's less privileged is just more raw Less space cause the projects laced with more flaws Less sleep cause the nights ain't peace, it's more war The can is raw like thirsty, rainy season thunder claps On the block with your old pop pleading number act To the spot with the red top fiends is huddled at To the crib where the little kids spend their summers trapped"). Mr. Nigga is a creative way to show the impact of race based prejudices ("One problem; even with the Os on his check The po-po stop him and show no respect "Is there a problem officer?" Damn straight, it's called race That motivate the jake (woo-woo) to give chase Say they want you successful, but that ain't the case You living large, your skin is dark, they flash a light in your face"). Mathematics is the epitome of classic, full of quotable lines ("The universe expands length The body of my text possess extra strength Power-lift the powerless up out of this towering inferno My ink so hot it burn through the journal I'm blacker than midnight on Broadway and Myrtle Hip-Hop passed all your tall social hurdles Like the nationwide projects-prison-industry complex Working-class poor, better keep your alarm set Streets too loud to ever hear freedom ring Say evacuate your sleep, it's dangerous to dream"). May-December, the closing track, is an instrumental that gives you some room to breathe and try to comprehend what you' ve experienced.
To sum it up, nothing short of a classic. (The review got bigger than I'd have liked, but it's mostly because I've quoted so much stuff. His lyrics are phenomenal, I couldn't resist the temptation.)
Next one is gonna be Crooked Lettaz - Grey Skies.
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Crooked Lettaz - Grey Skies is an album I was completely unaware of before the start of this tournament, so I was eager to discover what it had to offer, though I approached it cautiously, as I was afraid that the massive praise it received in here would lead me to set the bar too high and it couldn't live up to the expectations, but for the most part I can say it delivered. This came out at a time when southern hip hop had finally began to receive some recognition it was long overdue, so I can't quite put my finger on the reason this escaped most people's attention. The production is willing to try different things without losing its main focus. They go for an energetic sound, which never gets aggressive or violent, trying to draw you in as it slowly but surely hypnotizes you. Also, I have the impression that live instrumentation is not that common in southern hip hop, but I'm not an expert on the topic. The rapping always maintains a nice balance, with the two MCs complementing each other, though I have to confess my preference to the flamboyant and almost erratic style of Kamikaze. Most guests did also add something substantial to the album. By the way, any idea who this guy Aliou Dialo is? For some reason I can't explain I know Saint Peter won't call my name he was the most addictive part of the whole album. To my surprise I noticed the lyrics being cited as one of the attractions of the album. I thought that for the most part you can safely ignore them without missing out on anything spectacular. They are mainly talking about typical stuff of the South ( "I'm the trillest of the trill, you the fakest of the fake Pussy-ass niggas in the club tryna playa hate While I'm standin here draped in diamonds I ride with made niggas, some choppin on blade niggas Survive enemies, Mississippi get paid niggas", or "We the last line Of defense That's why the South remain calm In all this nonsense They cloning sheep Next week Boi, they'll be cloning you Now while you steady claiming coasts With your silly crew I got stew"). Not that it matters too much. The lyrics are far from the reason you'd listen to such an album. In that sense, it forms a nice pair with the other album of 1999, which is heavily based on its lyrics. When it comes to picking a highlight, the album is characterized by its consistency, it's hard to find songs that stand out either in a positive or in a negative manner. The party oriented Get Crunk is definitely a great moment and we get to see another side in A Girl Named Cim, but as I mentioned earlier, Straight Outta Africa Interlude is hands down the most memorable moment due to its seemingly out of nowhere guest.
To sum it up, a more than fine discovery but clearly one step behind Mos Def - Black on Both Sides.
Next one is gonna be Quelle Chris - Being You Is Great, I Wish I Could Be You More Often.
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Quelle Chris - Being You Is Great, I Wish I Could Be You More Often is an album that invites you to explore it, coming with a promising title and a promising album cover. The production follows clearly an experimental direction. In songs like Dumb for Brains he goes full experimental, while in songs like Learn to Love Hate he presents us a typical boom bap tune with a twist. There are many great moments, but there were cases where the idea seemed better than its actual execution, for example Calm Before The Storm was anything but calm. In fact, it made me anxious. The biggest problem is that at several points it felt it was dragging without being able to justify its length (for example Buddies, BS Vibes, I'm That Ni#%a, all of them good if not great nonetheless). This leads the album to being significantly longer than it should. Funnily enough, the two shortest track work more than fine considering their duration. The thirty second intro does make a point, as it is a warning sign it's gonna get messy really soon. The other thirty second track, Encore, is equally insane. Another complaint would be that some songs (e.g. Fascinating Grass) sounded a bit empty, like they were underproduced. Not a fan of his rapping. I usually enjoy this laid-back style, but here it wasn't " I know I'm cool and I know I can afford to take it slow, rather "I 'm so tired I need to sleep". I wonder if he would sound better in a more conventional environment. BS Vibes was one of the few instances where I thought he was up to the task, though his best performance has to be the highly energetic The Dreamer in the Den of Wolves. The guests -there were many of them-were enjoyable for the most part, Cavalier being my favorite and Jean Grae a close second. His lyrics are in my opinion the best part of the album. Despite being abstract they manage to convey the message. The forever alone Buddies ("Might go on vacation Just me and my nigga My nigga is me Myself and I Who said I need you? Oh dummy, they lyin’ I’m doin’ just fine My cloud is on nine I take myself out for drinks, myself and I lit Might fuck the same chick"), the introspective Popeye ("So, I had to bite the bullet, the casing, the trigger My nigga said, “Sun never felt so, blah; sleep never felt so, yawn” Cleon could’ve been that dude, no one remembers though Posse moved on? Possibly here (yeah), possibly long gone"), the painfully honest In Case I Lose Myself in the Crowd ("Lightin’ like, velvet – it felt right Too many nights hell-bent – motel life That old scent of unknown It’s somethin’ how my code-switches Somethin’ ‘bout my show scored different, my food thought heavy Fork lifted, cliché, cat-callin’ life a bitch, to address Form-fitted, winter storm, inner core But hear me comin’ at the door, intercom Sinners can’t sing along Pentecost, they make no sense How sweet the cold, even with the hoes it feel complete") and the outright depressive Birthdaze ("Feels like my birthday today, and those are the worst days If it's a race for the end, then why come in first place? I've seen a fork in the road, I chose the third way I'll suckie duckie quack quack, sun shading dark rays") uncover parts of his state of mind. On the other hand, I'm That Ni#%a is an equally impressive yet so humorous showcase of his songwriting skills ("I got the froq and dog with the solid gold bone Got a platinum card collection it look like upper deck We burnin' down so much it's fuckin' up the ozone Copped a bugatti for the driveway I ain't touch it yet Gordon Ramsey came over cooked up a nigga a festival He’s like Q you that nigga I'm like yo get off my testicles Used to dream that one day I'd hook up with TLC (TLC) So I creep with DL freaks who need TLC Olympic pool Michael Phelps wanna train in (train in) I said it's cool bring through a zip of that rainman"). Some highlights include the trippy vocals of Popeye, the fire-breathing horns of The Dreamer in the Den of Wolves and the entrancing The Prestige.
To sum it up, huge potential but some flaws that can't be ignored. I would rank this slightly above Crooked Lettaz - Grey Skies, but definitely below Mos Def - Black on Both Sides.
The last album of this matchup is gonna be Roc Marciano - Rosebudd's Revenge.

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