Guess my rule of thumb would be: is the music more western or more indigenous/"world?" If the rock element makes up more of an artist's music than indigenous/world elements, I'd say it's more rock. That example of Shibuya-kei is a challenging one. Ultimately I'd ask, are there more Western elements (including the original Western genres that influenced the Japanese genres that influenced Shibuya-kei) or more "other" elements in the music overall?
Guess my rule of thumb would be: is the music more western or more indigenous/"world?" If the rock element makes up more of an artist's music than indigenous/world elements, I'd say it's more rock. That example of Shibuya-kei is a challenging one. Ultimately I'd ask, are there more Western elements (including the original Western genres that influenced the Japanese genres that influenced Shibuya-kei) or more "other" elements in the music overall?
Almost all western countries have regional music that is non-classical and non-modern regional music. It would be crazy to not include things like Flamenco and stuff like that. They're as different from modern western music as any music from Asia or Africa etc. As long as it's non-classical or non-modern western music, it seems like a lot these musics fit the definition of regional music.
RoundTheBendI miss the comfort in being sadProfile Ground Control
I don't really know about the votes, to be honest since there won't be any consensus in the lists it kind of makes more sense to me that (assuming there are more than 5 submitters), you just have everyone nominate one album and make the argument for why it is great and give it appropriate historical context and stuff, and then we all listen to the nominations and then vote off of that. but I'm not super invested in the game part really, I just feel very strongly about the categorization issue.
While I agree with PurpleHazel (as it leans more towards western music it isn't and the more it leans to music from that country, it is), I think I'm with Tap's method of moving forward. I understand it as people vote as they think, and unless there's a bunch of people who then could get a consensus to vote out things, we just move forward with that.
Otherwise I'm out until the final round cause my experience with traditional/folk music of any country is lacking, nearly anything I know would probably be tainted with western music somehow, as have been any of the suggestions I've made.
Regardless, for me personally, I'm creating these threads to come back to to learn more from. I don't think it'd be fair for me to create this thread, catch up to where everyone else is on a particular genre, then start voting.
Here's another artist I like I ran into at the Santa Monica Pier and bought his CD. I don't think he's rock or pop, but I'm not a good judge of that (Same with Juanes... I mean he's clearly in the Latin genre, but he also clearly is in the rock/pop genre...)
You guys are already familiar with these two artists, I'm sure, but just adding to the party.
Pizzicato Five Cornelius
I particularly like Point from Cornelius. I've only heard select songs from Pizzicato Five.
no but see this is too far. cornelius is rock. there is no reason that this can't be talked about in rock. this is what I'm talking about. like you might as well start throwing in krautrock at that point. tho I guess if you already got metal in there too, why not
You are probably correct in the grand scheme of things. And yes, why label something as J-Pop or K-pop at all, isn't it just Pop? But therein lies the confusion of genre altogether, doesn't it. It's like me calling Grunge Alternative Rock. I'm sure that'd make some people's head's turn and others they'd be like, well yeah, that's cause it is. But for some they'd go ape shit about the differences.
Wikipedia labels Point as: Shibuya-kei, experimental, ambient. All Music puts it in the Pop/Rock genre, which is nearly useless and basically means popular music.
I'm actually not sure I'd call him rock at all. He plays guitar and that's about as close to rock as he gets. He clearly has a Japanese style to his music. I'd still stand by a "world music" label with his efforts over a rock one. I wouldn't put his music next to Radiohead for example, and call it the same thing, even if I didn't know where he was from. I mean I suppose Elvis Presley Radiohead, and Cornelius can all be called Rock.
But alas, the point of these threads isn't to debate what is and what isn't a genre.
I love Pizzicato Five, but I would say they are just Japanese artists doing strictly western music. To me they're all about 60's pop and 90s dance music. The only thing really Japanese about it is they often sing in Japanese.
RoundTheBendI miss the comfort in being sadProfile Ground Control
I suppose for me it's not about doing indigenous music only - it's capturing the culture of another people, regardless of the medium in which they write.
RoundTheBendI miss the comfort in being sadProfile Ground Control
I just feel very strongly about the categorization issue.
I suppose there's nothing stopping you from starting a thread that doesn't conflate World Music, Regional Music, African Music, Asian Music, Caribbean Music, Latin Music, etc.
I purposely wanted to talk about it at a 30k foot view. The essence was: 1) what non-western music do you like/want to share, and 2) what do we think the best of those are. I am a little ignorant when it comes to the concept that a "non-western" artist could actually be performing western music, or a western artist is actually performing non-western music. I don't know where to draw the lines or what to label what and what is ridiculous to include and what isn't (clearly). Sometimes they are clear and sometimes they are not.
I think arguing over when it is clear and when it is not is a waste of time. I really just want this thread to be recs for people to go look for non (less?) western music since this site doesn't have genre sorting.
There are 18 or so more genre's at the parent level to tackle. While not giving each country a spotlight gives them a disservice, I'm not sure how we'd accomplish that with the scope of the project (parent genres) in another way.
As RichardSauce said in another thread - (paraphrasing): this looks fun, but it also looks like a cluster____ of people arguing over what is and isn't a part of a genre.
If we want to continue with this, let's avoid any genre arguments please. If someone wants to vote for something not 100% in the genre, but 45%, who cares. If it is 100% not even possible it is in the genre, then sure, but if there's even a shadow of doubt that it could maybe possibly be in the genre, let's carry on.
RoundTheBendI miss the comfort in being sadProfile Ground Control
And to be fair this one is especially difficult because it is conflating multiple genre's and I realize that. I think it's also possible to have an open mind and pluralistic view into how this could be a positive experience regardless.
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