BSAT Round #2: Elliott Smith vs. Carly Rae Jepsen - Games

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HigherThanTheSun wrote:

BEA as a community voted Call Me Maybe best pop song last year's BEAMAs though, at the same time voting We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together by Taylor Swift one of the top 5 worst, even though they sound very very similar.

Honestly it does feel like some, a very select few, pop artists get a free pass whilst the majority are basically dismissed completely or on evidence of BEAMAs actively disliked, but I've never been able to work out what it is that decides this, seems a very fine line between pop artists being loved or hated here.

I agree! I don't understand the split.

I'm a sucker for great pop singles, such as "Call Me Maybe," but on the whole the albums rarely click with me.

Necharsian

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Should've known an argument against liking CRJ would pop up in a poll in which she is getting decimated 29-9. "But why doesnt everyone agree with me!!!!"

I've made my case in favor of Carly Rae quite a bit already on this site (probably more than i need to), so I wont go into giant detail here about why I think she deserves 9 god damn votes out of 37. But I can pretty easily tell the difference between her and Selena Gomez and Im not sure how you could mistake the two unless you just not trying to tell the difference. This isnt really a terrible thing (not caring about artists) but I mean, to Jhereko's point, if i came here saying Elliott Smith sounds exactly like Sufjan Stevens or Jeff Buckley people would throw a fit. Selena's sound is more like The Wanted or Britney Spears anyways. Not really in the same ballpark as Carly.

RockyRaccoon wrote:

There is nothing unique about Jepsen, yet she is singled out as this special pop artist while the rest of her contemporaries (who sound very similar to her) are summarily dismissed.

The people who condemn her contemporaries are not the same people that like CRJ. Once again, she has 9 votes. It's really a shame people are missing the forest for the trees here by turning this poll into "wow Elliott Smith is crushing CRJ but let's argue why her getting 24% of the votes is unfair and terrible"

RockyRaccoon

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Jhereko wrote:

I think the mistake would be in trying to look at BEA generally. The people who like CRJ, though they certainly might not respect Gomez's music do not dismiss it. Admittedly I'm saying this from my point of view specifically (what else can I do?) but I certainly don't single out CRJ at all. I think Jepsen, Beyonce, Rihanna, Nicki Minaj, Spears, Aguilera, Perry, GaGa etc have all released at the very least decent complete albums that each have their own individual sound - you just have to listen with an unbiased ear.

You say you don't remotely blanket-hate pop music and yet you made the statement "it sounds exactly the same as the rest of the generic pop we play" which is exactly the sort of thing someone who dislikes or hasn't tried much pop would say. Kiss sounds nothing like Loud which sounds nothing like 4 which sounds nothing like ArtPop. People could say, and have said, that Smith is generic singer-songwriter folk and he's indistinguishable from others of his ilk - and that would mean as much as saying all pop sounds the same.

Back to the original issue - you're trying to look at all BEA's opinions collectively but the people who dismiss Gomez aren't the same people who endorse Carly. In fact I'm not sure I've even seen an anti Gomez comment on here? I don't personally like Gomez' music and I don't think Stars Dance is anywhere near as good as Kiss but I don't believe that makes me a hypocrite. In fact it's as legitimate as someone saying they don't like Muse but they like Radiohead. The hypocrite would be someone saying all pop sounds the same based on only hearing a single here and there from each artist. If I only heard one or two Elliott Smith songs and one or two Nick Drake songs and said they sound exactly the same it would be just as valid but also just as silly as saying it about pop artists. It would be the definition of ignorance.

You're right, you make some good points.

I made some assumptions rather than assertions based on observed fact. I assumed that the BEA community would react negatively to the mentioned artists without actually having seen that (at least, not that I recall).

You're also correct in saying that my statement that her music is "generic pop" is in the wrong. I truly don't blanket-hate pop music, I do try to give it a fair shake, which I did with CRJ, and because I don't like it, I referred to it in a negative way, and that was wrong. I, personally, find CRJ's music to be generic, however that is my opinion on it, rather than the "fact" that I seemed to state it as, and you are correct in saying that CRJ's music is, in the literal sense, distinguishable from other pop artist's music. So I apologize for that.

Quote:

BEA as a community voted Call Me Maybe best pop song last year's BEAMAs though, at the same time voting We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together by Taylor Swift one of the top 5 worst, even though they sound very very similar.

Honestly it does feel like some, a very select few, pop artists get a free pass whilst the majority are basically dismissed completely or on evidence of BEAMAs actively disliked, but I've never been able to work out what it is that decides this, seems a very fine line between pop artists being loved or hated here.

I do find this to be interesting however.
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HigherThanTheSun wrote:

BEA as a community voted Call Me Maybe best pop song last year's BEAMAs though, at the same time voting We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together by Taylor Swift one of the top 5 worst, even though they sound very very similar.

Honestly it does feel like some, a very select few, pop artists get a free pass whilst the majority are basically dismissed completely or on evidence of BEAMAs actively disliked, but I've never been able to work out what it is that decides this, seems a very fine line between pop artists being loved or hated here.

This is the same deal. Trying to see a group of individuals as a single thinking entity - which they obviously aren't. Once again the people who voted for Call Me Maybe as best pop song are not the same people who put Swift there ( I certainly really like both tracks). Same thing this year - Miley was nominated for Best Pop Song and Worst Song of the year. You really think it's the same people putting her in both?

Pop is crazy divisive on this site (although it's certainly much more accepted than when I first started here so thanks y'all) so you're going to see it appear in both best and worst lists - though usually (of course there are exceptions as people don't have to like every artist in a genre) it's not from the same users.

HigherThanTheSun

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Location: UK

Jhereko wrote:

This is the same deal. Trying to see a group of individuals as a single thinking entity - which they obviously aren't. Once again the people who voted for Call Me Maybe as best pop song are not the same people who put Swift there ( I certainly really like both tracks). Same thing this year - Miley was nominated for Best Pop Song and Worst Song of the year. You really think it's the same people putting her in both?

Pop is crazy divisive on this site (although it's certainly much more accepted than when I first started here so thanks y'all) so you're going to see it appear in both best and worst lists - though usually (of course there are exceptions as people don't have to like every artist in a genre) it's not from the same users.

Yeah, fair point.
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Saoirse

Agree with a lot that's been said, I think essentially putting Carly into a lower class essentially because of her stardom and the style of music she plays (she shares a style with like-minded artists- not the same sound), somehow she's viewed as lesser (or not-legitimate) artist or that we're not being honest (ironic) when someone says they like her and maybe generally prefer her over a more critically lauded artist like Smith. That's a terrible way to approach music. Every artist should be listened to with an open mind, and viewed solely through the art (yes it is art) they produce rather than what they're often classified as, and the enjoyment or not of the music shouldn't simply be a reflection on how you want to be viewed as a music fan/connessieur. It's not to say that people who dislike Carly or another pop artist are blanket-hating the genre- there are pop artists I like (Ariana Grande, Kacey Musgraves, Kesha, Ellie Goulding, Sky Ferreira) and others I geniunely don't care for (Christina Aguilera, Taylor Swift, Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez etc etc)- many have listened to "Kiss" or Carly's singles in all earnesty and it just wasn't their bag, completely understandable. It all just turns into a bit of problem when one artist is deemed less legitimate, or a lesser class of performers, moreso for the style they produce or the fatigue of their music's ubiquity than the specific music in question. I think it just sets a really bad example for what music is deemed acceptable for a music fan to listen to and that people's enjoyment or non-enjoyment of a certain type of music can be often put into question if they're being "ironic" or not, and that something's off when they don't share a popular niche opinion.

That being said, taking both of these artists' input into review, Smith easily got my vote, scout's honor