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| Poll: Is something's labelling as art intrinsic to the object or depends on the perceiver? |
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| Intrinsic and objective |
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14% |
[3] |
| Subjective |
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85% |
[18] |
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| Total Votes : 21 |
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| Author |
Message |
SquishypuffDave
Gender: Male
Age: 34
- #81
- Posted: 01/07/2015 04:20
- Post subject:
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My preferred definition: art is an interpretive action. Art is the frame, and the frame is a frame of mind. Mind over matter 'cause the matter doesn't mind.
This makes no distinction between "artist" and "viewer". Both are involved in the action of artistic interpretation. In fact I'd say that act of seeing something as art is the act of an artist.
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benpaco
Who's gonna watch you die?
Age: 28
Location: Missouri 
- #82
- Posted: 01/07/2015 04:21
- Post subject:
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| Muslim-Bigfoot wrote: | | Don't tell me you wouldn't be able to imagine 4'33'' if I told you what it was? Now think about how that would work with Beethoven's ninth symphony. What I'm saying is that ideas and concepts cannot be works of art. I cannot tell you what art is though. |
I was no older than 7 (maybe younger? I dunno, but I can tell you that was the oldest I was) when I first went to see a live orchestra, and they performed some big opening that was loud and interesting and then a slow piece and then something from some movie my parents had seen and I hadn't, and then announced their next piece and my dad laughed. He knew what was happening, the rest of us didn't. They sat there for some time, and then people started clapping. I don't have terribly clear memory of the experience, again, I was fairly young, but I remember being weirdly shaken by it. To go from some loud cool thing to just the sound of the wind and the trees and the whole audience breathing, breathing, breathing, louder almost to try to fill the void of sound ... I didn't understand it as a kid, I was almost scared. Looking back, it seems kind of cool I guess.
In other words, to me, it's art if it's used right, and anything from silence to a fart joke to a skeleton can be.
_________________
. . . 2016 . . . 2015 . . .
"While I'm alive, I'll make tiny changes to Earth" - Frightened Rabbit
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meccalecca
Voice of Reason
Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment
- #83
- Posted: 01/07/2015 16:16
- Post subject:
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| Muslim-Bigfoot wrote: | | My challenge is not result-sensitive. |
Not quite sure what that means.
I think Satie and Ben both made a good case for why imagining 4'33 isn't the same as experiencing it. I'd also argue that both Beethoven's 9th and 4'33 can be written out as sheet music. One is far more complicated and harder to imagine, but both exist. Most composers can imagine every detail of a symphony without actually hearing it played, so sheet music is not exactly unimaginable without hearing it performed. I'm sure if a skilled composer read sheet music of an unperformed symphony, they would be able to tell you whether or not they love it.
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http://jonnyleather.com
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WindowAbove
Gender: Male
Age: 26
Location: Iowa
- #84
- Posted: 01/07/2015 17:38
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Art consists of all of the music ever released except for that released by Jay-Z.
(I apologize if someone made this joke already, I didn't read through most of the thread)
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- #85
- Posted: 01/07/2015 20:58
- Post subject:
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| meccalecca wrote: | Not quite sure what that means.
I think Satie and Ben both made a good case for why imagining 4'33 isn't the same as experiencing it. I'd also argue that both Beethoven's 9th and 4'33 can be written out as sheet music. One is far more complicated and harder to imagine, but both exist. Most composers can imagine every detail of a symphony without actually hearing it played, so sheet music is not exactly unimaginable without hearing it performed. I'm sure if a skilled composer read sheet music of an unperformed symphony, they would be able to tell you whether or not they love it. |
To follow up on this point, assuming you're correct Muslim-Bigfoot, and we take your definition of art object and concept interchangeability as the limit on what art is, where exactly is that line? JLIAT's The Nature of Nature is one hour of the same tone. Is that enough to overcome 4'33"'s 0 tone non-art status? If not, what about slightly fluctuating sine waves on various onkyo releases? No? What about a minimalist score with three rotating nexuses? Or is complexity not a part of your argument?
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