This is a tough one for me. I was pleasantly surprised by Anthology IV - I felt it was more cohesive than a lot of the prog metal I've heard. It still had the tempo / time signature shifts and everything but they felt more justified than in other similar albums I've heard. Hard to explain what I mean, but while a lot of prog strikes me as complex for the sake of being complex the changes in this album actually made this album more interesting. I especially liked the jazzy segments in the middle third.
However, it's going up against my nomination and perhaps my favorite sludge metal album. I listed to it again this weekend and was once again blown away by how heavy and powerful it sounds. And honestly the last few minutes of "Weight" have more incredible moments than all of Anthology IV did. I would have voted for Anthology IV in several other matchups this round but it had a tough draw here. _________________ And it's hard to be a human being. And it's harder as anything else.
Maybe the easiest vote so far. That oceanic is a classic of sludge or whatever it is, post metal etc. along with their next album. Enough said.
When I listened to anthology IV the first thing I thought is it's going to be a marmite record. People will really hate and others will think its marvellous. First off, it's possibly the most prog album I think I've ever heard. I don't think I've listened to anything with as many styles and genres as this. They even rap at one point! I feel quite the opposite to babybluesedan. I don't think it is coherent. It felt like being battered from everywhere, like watching five different tv shows at once and trying to follow the content. Lots of prog metal is just plain naff, this mostly isn't, apart from utopia which was a bit. When it started I enjoyed the first couple but then it just started getting more daft as it went, with points when it relaxed to really hit some highs. The piano piece was one of them. Overall I just felt anxious listening to it. Bit of a strange one as some people will love it for the exact reasons that I don't. Frustrating though quite unlike anything I've heard before.
Anthology IV is a damn good album (well, considering it's a Gowi nom and I know he doesn't fuck around when it comes to metal). It was a very fun listen with a lot of diverse musical ideas being played around by great musicianship. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
However, it's going up against an album by one of my favourite metal bands ever. Even though I'm more of a Panopticon person, myself, Oceanic hits you like a tonne of bricks.
This is a tough one, but I'm going to go with Oceanic. _________________
Akphaezya was pretty good. Wished the artist did swing music instead of this because there's a lot of potential given the vocals and talents of the group.
Anthology IV: The Tragedy of Nerak is another good album that deserves recognition, and that made me hesitate a little to choose Isis. But my vote went all the same to oceanic.
Oceanic is the antithesis of what I like about sludge metal. I respect Isis and similar bands that took challenging new directions in a genre that was aesthetically simplistic; however, my opinion has not changed about atmospheric sludge (or post-sludge if you prefer) in the last ten or so years of listening to metal musicians consistently. Oceanic is a solid album and its influence is already well stated among metal publications and fan consensus, but it really really reminds me of a single train of thought when listening to it—
I could be listening to an actual sludge metal album.
And every single time when I listen to it, that’s exactly what I do. Not to be patronizing, but there’s little to nothing representing sludge metal on this release, but that’s the curse of atmospheric sludge as a genre attempting to alleviate something beyond its original purpose, intent, tone, and themes. Even if this had not been going up against one of my favorite avant-garde metal releases I would still say the same and probably vote the same. Atmospheric Sludge is a hard sell for me when as I said it represent nothing about what makes sludge interesting, dynamic, and well… fun. At least Funeral Doom Metal, another doom metal development of artistic progression, keeps something about the original framework in mind. I know atmospheric sludge is popular and my opinion will likely not change any minds, but it is what it is.
As for the Akphaezya release— it’s one of the most iconic avant-garde metal releases, and if you feel it is too “out there” it is probably due to the fact that is exactly the point. Other contemporaries such as Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, Unexpect, and Diablo Swing Orchestra all take similar approaches to things as they take a frantic sense of artistic expression within experimental progressive frameworks to create something that is really special. This is an album that isn’t a run-of-the-mil sort of “prog by numbers” progressive metal release— this isn’t Spiral Architect, Spastic Ink, Dream Theater, Fates Warning, or so on; this is the avant-garde side of progressive metal, the weird and the unrestrained; the completely insane and obtusely planned. I could’ve picked albums more feasible to BEA’s taste and more central favorites of mine, but I feel we wouldn’t be learning or listening to anything new if I did that.
Atmospheric Sludge is a hard sell for me when as I said it represent nothing about what makes sludge interesting, dynamic, and well… fun.
It's funny because I think I actually agree with this. I absolutely adore Oceanic and Panopticon, but my search for similar albums I enjoy has left me mostly empty handed. Even Neurosis, who are probably the biggest name in the genre, tend to build their songs too slowly for me to keep interest in. Isis on the other hand feel more hard hitting - even when their songs are slowly building to something bigger they don't lose their heaviness. They manage to make their music formless and fluid while still making you feel like your being crushed under a bunch of wet cement.
Probably also helps that sludge is one of the metal genres I'm least versed in, outside of Boris, Melvins, and early Mastodon. Don't want to make this a thread about sludge metal when there's another album in this matchup that's very worth hearing, but I'd be curious to hear about some sludge metal you find better than Oceanic. _________________ And it's hard to be a human being. And it's harder as anything else.
It's funny because I think I actually agree with this. I absolutely adore Oceanic and Panopticon, but my search for similar albums I enjoy has left me mostly empty handed. Even Neurosis, who are probably the biggest name in the genre, tend to build their songs too slowly for me to keep interest in. Isis on the other hand feel more hard hitting - even when their songs are slowly building to something bigger they don't lose their heaviness. They manage to make their music formless and fluid while still making you feel like your being crushed under a bunch of wet cement.
Probably also helps that sludge is one of the metal genres I'm least versed in, outside of Boris, Melvins, and early Mastodon. Don't want to make this a thread about sludge metal when there's another album in this matchup that's very worth hearing, but I'd be curious to hear about some sludge metal you find better than Oceanic.
Now, this is going into territory of my preferences; and I admit I am oddly a bit more orthodox and “purist” in my thinking with sludge metal (yet I am the antithesis of that in progressive metal, black metal, etc.). But to really dissect what I like about sludge you have to go back to what the genre started out being in the first place. Sludge was one of the earliest developments to come out of metal by remerging it with the aggressive and filterless hardcore and crust punk that existed in the early development of thrash and speed metal except y’know this time it was with doom metal instead. It’s rarely seen as sensible in metal communities to call sludge metal the purest of “metalcore” derivatives, but the source material is there.
Whilst early groups like the Melvins and Fudge Tunnel were trying to get an idea what sludge metal represented in its earliest years it wasn’t until a few notable acts really hammered the point home by making feedback-laden riffs with aggressive d-beat style drumming and almost swampy doom metal aesthetics. A friend of mine once described orthodox/traditional sludge metal as “stoner rock’s drunk, angry, and unintelligent uncle” and if you take a look at it... it’s not too far off. To get an idea of conventional sludge metal before the experimentation of Neurosis, Isis, and so on really took over the genre— just take a look to the UK and the American South where bands like Iron Monkey, Eyehategod, Crowbar, Cavity, Breach, Acid Bath, and others continued the framework laid down without turning the genre into an arthouse spectacle.
The kind of sludge I like is, like I said, dynamic and fun; unapologetic and aggressive yet as heavy as the sinking waves. I just wish when you say “Sludge Metal” people don’t think of some post-metal precursor when from the onset it was so very different. There’s also the fact it is very frustrating that is very hard to find good sludge acts that are around today that aren’t these overblown “arthouse” sludge bands. When I want to listen to sludge I want it to hit me hard and without restraint.
But to answer the question of what is essentially what is the best sludge metal album in my opinion? Probably Acid Bath's debut, though really any number of the albums/bands I mentioned could make an argument against it one way or another. I’m obviously a big fan of Eyehategod, Melvins, Iron Monkey (who didn’t make enough albums, IMO), 16, and plenty of other acts.
Cool, thanks, that gives me more stuff to check out after this tourney is over. I do like When the Kite String Pops but it's such a muddy album it may take me more listens to enjoy fully. Heard a lot about Eyehategod but haven't listened to them. _________________ And it's hard to be a human being. And it's harder as anything else.
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