When I first started listening to the genre I was always looking for elements of rock in the songs, assuming that rock influences would be what made the best hip hop great. It was with this mindset that I first heard Illmatic, and honestly I was super bored. Looking back, I realize this was a terrible way to approach the genre because hip hop is it's own thing, and letting go of any preconceived notions of what makes music great will help you enjoy it more. Though this is true with any genre, as Luigii said.
This is crucial to venturing into new genres. It really is a process of letting go.
Eventually the ability to step in and out of the different vibes and grooves of each genre becomes second nature, like any medium. You don't evaluate a romance film based on how scary it is. It's funny that we seem much better at differentiating types of narrative and appreciating them for their variable qualities than we do with music.
I appreciate that it uses live jazz players, but by the same token, the players feel constricted, and much of what I love about jazz is missing. There's not a lot of improvisation. I mentioned Ronny Jordan earlier, and he's on here. Compared to the Ronny Jordan record, this attempts to have something more to say, whereas Ronny Jordan is more style over substance.
And while it's not necessarily categorised as hip-hop or rap, probably better described as soul/r&b/jazz, I think it's a better integration of jazz and hip-hop sounds than anything else happening at the time. Her vocal delivery often has the rhythmic complexity that rap fans like, but there is more melody to it. The bass lines and grooves are killer.
That hip-hop continues to alienate middle-aged white men speaks to its success as a countercultural phenomenon and partially explains why it has eclipsed rock in modern youth culture. Even if you never succeed in understanding it, take comfort in knowing that you were never meant to.
RoundTheBendI miss the comfort in being sadProfile Ground Control
That hip-hop continues to alienate middle-aged white men speaks to its success as a countercultural phenomenon and partially explains why it has eclipsed rock in modern youth culture. Even if you never succeed in understanding it, take comfort in knowing that you were never meant to.
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Wabam!
While I agree in some ways of what you are saying (damn that was a slam), there are plenty of middle aged white men who totally get hip-hop/rap... they make it and produce it.
I think some people forget hip-hop/rap is 40 years old, it's not really a young persons thing anymore.
But alas, by and large and in an overgeneralized way, what you say is true.
That hip-hop continues to alienate middle-aged white men speaks to its success as a countercultural phenomenon and partially explains why it has eclipsed rock in modern youth culture. Even if you never succeed in understanding it, take comfort in knowing that you were never meant to.
I don't buy it. As Seth said, hip-hop is old, and I wasn't always middle-aged. I was 12 when I heard and liked Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five, and Run-DMC. I was 14 when I first heard and didn't particularly like the Beastie Boys. It's entirely possible that I'll never be really into it, but not because I'm middle-aged or white (I was just making fun of myself in the thread title).
It could be my culture, but there's plenty of challenging music that's foreign to my culture that I appreciate, understand and connect with. It's not my age. I like just as much music from 2017 as I do from 1997, when I was 25, or from 1967 before I was born.
Still, it's a mystery when you just don't connect with music that so many other people do. I don't get Arcade Fire just as much as I don't get Kanye.
So the ubiquitousness of the world nigger in modern hip-hop is merely “foreign” to you and it is only by coincidence that it offends your sensibilities? It is not intended to put off peace-loving, color-blind, middle-aged white guys? That is fortunate.
So the ubiquitousness of the world nigger in modern hip-hop is merely “foreign” to you and it is only by coincidence that it offends your sensibilities? It is not intended to put off peace-loving, color-blind, middle-aged white guys? That is fortunate.
I understand both my disliking of the word AND that cultural language is used as a gatekeeper.
My original post was talking about Wu-Tang, and I acknowledged it was only a surface level assessment. At the same time there wasn't really enough there musically (for me) to make me wanna revisit it.
In contrast, an album like this (with the same kind of language and more) is one of my favourites. It's musically brilliant, engaging, emotionally intelligent, and masterfully explores sexual, spiritual, and social themes.
There's some truth to what you're saying, generally speaking, but that doesn't mean that it's true of me. Your two posts here have come across as dismissive, and then sarcastic. Perhaps you're looking for a fight on the internet? I'm not. If you want to discuss music, let's do that instead.
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