Many of the user charts on this site are overwhelmingly representing a small selection of countries when there are many more countries making music that operates in a similar context to the music that does get charted. I believe this is not because of an inferiority of the music of those countries, but a result of how the music is presented as existing in a category and context. And so I think that if you have a regional music category and you're putting in all these rock and pop things into it, not only is it contributing to that problem, but it's also giving an easy way out here, because instead of putting the work in to engage with traditional music around the world which doesn't operate in a familiar context, you're engaging with things you already have the tools to engage with.
I voted for African music because I don't think it's a real category but it'd be focused enough to talk about all of the specific sub categories and illustrate the variety contained within. And in an Asian music thread sure I'd expect to see discussion of Cornelius and also the Anthology of Chinese Experimental Music 1992-2008 comp and all sorts of other stuff. But if it's Regional Music, where RYM lists exceptions because "despite being regional in a geographical sense, [they] are not considered regional music because they follow and extend global music trends rather than regional traditions", then I believe it makes sense to focus on the music that does not do that.
RoundTheBendI miss the comfort in being sadProfile Ground Control
Yeah I was going to say the same the thing as Tap said.
I know plenty of Japanese Artists, but not that much (although certainly more than other Asian Countries) traditional music.
I could make a Japanese list of Shibuya Kei artists, which is a specific artistic sub culture in Japan, but they would all still be rock music for the most part.
"World Music" as a genre title usually means western music with ethnic or regional influences.
I love Peter Gabriel, but I wouldn't ever call "Biko" African music.
And I'd say the same thing for Paul Simon's Graceland, even though it's first genre listed on Wikipedia is
Worldbeat.
So if there is music from Africa that could potentially fit another genre, it doesn't count on this thread and should be moved to those respective threads, is that what the consensus is?
This is how Wikipedia defines world music:
Quote:
World music (also called global music or international music[1]) is a musical category encompassing many different styles of music from around the globe, which includes many genres including some forms of Western music represented by folk music, as well as selected forms of ethnic music, indigenous music, neotraditional music, and music where more than one cultural tradition, such as ethnic music and Western popular music, intermingle.
For me Cornelius' work has more than one cultural tradition that intermingles... idk. Besides the fact that he sings in Japanese, I get a strong sense of Japanese culture in his music (have Japanese family members and have spent time in Japan... I'm only saying this to say I wouldn't consider myself a complete outsider to Japanese culture). But I suppose I'm wrong.
RoundTheBendI miss the comfort in being sadProfile Ground Control
What's funny is that sounds very little like Japanese music, and more like them imitating both surfer rock and for a lack of better terms: banjo music.
I've heard traditional Japanese music and that sounded nothing like it.
The performance reminds me of this where sure it's classical, but it actually is more like a rock performance than classical:
Many of the user charts on this site are overwhelmingly representing a small selection of countries when there are many more countries making music that operates in a similar context to the music that does get charted. I believe this is not because of an inferiority of the music of those countries, but a result of how the music is presented as existing in a category and context. And so I think that if you have a regional music category and you're putting in all these rock and pop things into it, not only is it contributing to that problem, but it's also giving an easy way out here, because instead of putting the work in to engage with traditional music around the world which doesn't operate in a familiar context, you're engaging with things you already have the tools to engage with.
I voted for African music because I don't think it's a real category but it'd be focused enough to talk about all of the specific sub categories and illustrate the variety contained within. And in an Asian music thread sure I'd expect to see discussion of Cornelius and also the Anthology of Chinese Experimental Music 1992-2008 comp and all sorts of other stuff. But if it's Regional Music, where RYM lists exceptions because "despite being regional in a geographical sense, [they] are not considered regional music because they follow and extend global music trends rather than regional traditions", then I believe it makes sense to focus on the music that does not do that.
I can 100% agree with this. I just don't have enough experience to know when that's true and when it isn't.
EDIT: I actually had both in mind when I created the thread and is likely why it's been confusing. I wanted to please people who wanted to use the RYM instead of Wikipedia's definitions of parent genre's, so I combined the two and said I'm ok with the duality and differences. I think both can exist/be talked about in a single thread.
Shibuya-kei seems really clear to me to be a regional thing (being named after a suburb of Tokyo), but it clearly isn't?
Last edited by RoundTheBend on 05/07/2018 05:34; edited 1 time in total
that wikipedia list of popular music genres page kinda looks like a mess but i think the opening paragraph for the specific genre makes things clear in this case
Quote:
Shibuya-kei (Japanese: ๆธ่ฐท็ณป, lit. "Shibuya style") is an eclectic form of pop music[1] and an aesthetic[6] that flourished in the mid to late 1990s.[3] Emerging as Japanese retail music from the Shibuya district of Tokyo,[4] artists purveyed a cut-and-paste style that was inspired by previous genres based on kitsch, fusion, and artifice.[7] The genre was strongly influenced by 1960s culture and Western pop music,[1] especially the orchestral domains occupied by producers Burt Bacharach, Brian Wilson, Phil Spector, and singer Serge Gainsbourg.[8]
also, some of you guys may be interested in this album that came out on Friday, Crying Bamboos: Ceremonial Flute Music from New Guinea: Madang. It's on the youtube topic videos section so I'd imagine it is on the streaming services. Here's the press blurb on it
Quote:
Crying Bamboos is a translation of the pidgin description of the sound of sacred flutes: โMambu i cry, i cry, i cryโ.
Sacred flutes are blown to make the cries of spirits by adult men in the Madang region of Papua New Guinea. Pairs of long bamboo male and female flutes are played for ceremonies in the coastal villages near the Ramu River. There are seven male initiation flute cries from Bosmun, four flute cries from Bak: Borai with occasional single garamut percussion and two flute cries from Kaean, one with vocals and hand drums. The flute players were of the last generation to have learned this skill during a complete cycle of male initiation. These previously unreleased recordings were made in 1979.
I guess Bjork sampled Sacred Flute Music From New Guinea: Madang / Windim Mabu on Utopia, I should probably check that one out too.
Last edited by Tap on 05/06/2018 23:40; edited 1 time in total
RoundTheBendI miss the comfort in being sadProfile Ground Control
I was simply hoping this thread would give a place to talk about music that wasn't Western... to give light to that music which clearly is lacking on the overall charts.
I had no intention to frustrate anyone for mixing and matching with Regional and World Music. As BobbyB5 started the thread out by saying, nearly all conversations he's had about this topic ended up in an argument... hahaha. Well he wasn't wrong.
Tap/Rocka - or anyone else who is raising eyebrows to anything in the rankings so far feel free to speak up and remove the votes (I think this means the metal from Scandinavia and Switzerland is out?)
I don't really know about the votes, to be honest since there won't be any consensus in the lists it kind of makes more sense to me that (assuming there are more than 5 submitters), you just have everyone nominate one album and make the argument for why it is great and give it appropriate historical context and stuff, and then we all listen to the nominations and then vote off of that. but I'm not super invested in the game part really, I just feel very strongly about the categorization issue.
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