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AfterHours
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  • #641
  • Posted: 11/10/2025 18:14
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  • 👎 Romanelli
Tired argument against the GOAT, debunked... Context, context, context...


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AfterHours
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  • #642
  • Posted: 11/14/2025 15:40
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  • 🤣 Romanelli, 👎 AfterHours

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Is Jokic the greatest offensive player of all time?

Like the 60's, it is hard to compare the stats of today with those of -- especially -- mid-90's through about 2010 (the "deadball" era), so the contextual argument vs Kobe and particularly post-return, latter career, Jordan is tough. But, regardless, there can be little doubt Jokic is at least on the very very shortlist when you combine his offensive skillset of inside/mid-range/outside shooting (excellent in all) and his being the best big man passer in league history -- an offensive skillset that is most reminiscent of peak Larry Bird (even the similarity in shooting form). And then at the efficiency he is displaying, which is ridiculous. Which again, is hard to compare apples to apples because there is so much more spacing and a lot more pace and possessions now, so of course the counting numbers and the efficiency numbers are on average going to be superior. 25 points today is quite a bit lower, in ratio to a team's overall score, than it was during that "deadball" era. When Jordan scored 45 in his final Bulls game (1998 Finals) in relation to his teams total of 87 (51.7% of his teams score) it would be the equivalent of (approx) scoring 60, in today's game, for example, while also being much more arduous (more physical, clogged paint the whole game...).

But a telling point also is that he even stands out among his peers to a similar degree of separation that someone like Jordan did.

If I had to bite, I would probably say, yes, he is the best offensive player in NBA history (even if I would call Jordan or Kobe the "most complete/skilled", and also would put Bird right up there...

I think Jokic is probably, overall (when you include the passing genius and impact), more impactful than -- perhaps -- even Jordan. Though adding Jordan's off-ball movement, relentless pressure on the defense, knifing at it from all angles throughout the game (none of that measured all that well by stats or even advanced stats)... hmmmm... it's really tough actually... but the fact this is even a discussion is telling enough...

Push comes to shove, I'd probably say Jokic, peak for peak as Jokic is still clearly in his with no signs of decline yet. Of course, as overall players, Jordan is certainly the superior defensive player and his competitiveness and leadership are difficult to measure up against and no doubt play a part in how he could always seem to push his team to win from pretty much the moment he had a strong enough cast around him to contend. So I'm not saying Jokic has surpassed Jordan peak vs peak all time (even while advanced stats could make that case in per minute metrics) but Jokic is on a trajectory that should put him in the top 5 all time players in league history. He will probably need to pull out at least 1-2 more championships to get there -- because no matter what anyone might say, it isn't entirely about statistical production averages as black and white comparisons year to year (entirely by the numbers), but also extremely important, especially near the top of an all time comparison, that a player also proves himself in the toughest and most competitive and highest pressure situations just like the others up there already have.

As a note: barring key injury, I do think the Nuggets are probably the only team that can realistically expect to be able to take down OKC this year in a 7 game series, primarily due to having Thanos with all the infinity stones (aka Jokic) and probably their strongest cast overall -- even if OKC is the safer more logical, reliable bet to win the title, and should win the title on paper

@ Romanelli, I thumbed-down my own post this time to save you the trouble!!! 🤣
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