Chart ratings issue - Suggestions - Forums : Best Ever Albums

Xavygravy

When deleting our own charts, all our ratings of other charts shouldn't be deleted, as has happened when I deleted and re-made my chart.

Instead, ratings should be kept in the database, but not shown or used as long as we don't have a chart.

Polythene Pam

You could always just go "edit" chart instead

Xavygravy

Polythene Pam wrote:

You could always just go "edit" chart instead

That's not the point.

albummaster

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Location: Spain

Site Admin

Xavygravy wrote:

When deleting our own charts, all our ratings of other charts shouldn't be deleted, as has happened when I deleted and re-made my chart.

Instead, ratings should be kept in the database, but not shown or used as long as we don't have a chart.

Sorry, I don't agree with that. If the chart is deleted, what is the point of having a rating which refers to nothing?

Xavygravy

albummaster wrote:

Xavygravy wrote:

When deleting our own charts, all our ratings of other charts shouldn't be deleted, as has happened when I deleted and re-made my chart.

Instead, ratings should be kept in the database, but not shown or used as long as we don't have a chart.

Sorry, I don't agree with that. If the chart is deleted, what is the point of having a rating which refers to nothing?

The rating doesn't 'refer to nothing'. Chart deletion is often temporary, so all our ratings shouldn't be removed permanently if we happen to be deleting and re-working out charts.
For longer lengths of time, such as months or years, perhaps they should be removed, but otherwise no.

I'm a little annoyed that all my chart ratings were removed without any kind of warning or indication that this would happen. I assumed it would be the same as if you set your chart to 'member feedback only' (when you do this, your ratings for other charts disappear, but are still stored). This is what should have happened in my case too. I know you probably can't get my ratings back, but it's something easily-implementable that could prevent future instances from occurring to myself and others.

albummaster

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Gender: Male

Location: Spain

Site Admin

Sorry, I'll add something extra to the 'delete chart' confirmation message to explain this. I assumed (wrongly) people would realise everything to do with your chart would be deleted when you delete your chart.

EDIT: The delete chart confirmation message has now been updated.

One of the main reasons for the delete functionality is to give people a fresh start with their chart e.g. if someone creates a chart and it gets flamed by everybody, they can create a new one and their old rating/comments are not left over.

Last edited by albummaster on 10/14/2011 12:23; edited 1 time in total

Hayden

Location: Vietnam

Not that my opinion matters too much, but I disagree with this.

The ratings would therefor stand for nothing Confused

Sorry.

_________________
Doubles & Conch

albummaster

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Gender: Male

Location: Spain

Site Admin

If the old and new charts are completely different, why should an out of date rating still count? If you just want to edit your chart (and keep your old ratings), use the 'edit' feature (that's why it's there). Both options are available to people.

Xavygravy

albummaster wrote:

If the old and new charts are completely different, why should an out of date rating still count? If you just want to edit your chart (and keep your old ratings), use the 'edit' feature (that's why it's there). Both options are available to people.

2 things:
Firstly, it wouldn't be uncommon for people wanting old ratings to be removed, because all the old ratings are irrelevant to the 'different and much better' chart they have now. But what options do they have? Editing the chart doesn't remove them, and deleting the chart does, but has two problems - you have to re-add every single album to your chart and any comments you had on them, and you lose every single rating you've made on another chart.

Secondly, people DO delete their charts, and sometimes very often. Among the most active here, many of them have deleted and re-made their charts countless times, and may not even have a chart right now. What does this mean for other charts? It means out of the people who are most likely to rate your chart (active members), many won't even bother with the ratings or even comments on any other chart because they'll just be deleted when they want to re-do a chart (usually the reasons stated in the first problem would be a large factor). This ratings will often disappear from charts, and making anyone who wants to re-do their chart unlikely to even bother rating charts again.

Here are some solutions I propose (some are a little irrelevant to the points I'm making):
1) Give users an option, when they go to their 'ratings' page via their profile, to delete all of the ratings under a certain category (e.g. if you are on the songs page, the option to delete all song rankings, NOT all ratings in general).
1a) As an addition to 1), perhaps having tick boxes next to each item, and at the top having options such as 'delete', 'change rating to...', 'listened', 'collection', 'wishlist', and later: 'tags'. The tick boxes should also be added to 'Collection' and 'Listened' pages.
1b) To go along with 1a), we should have the option to show more items on a single page, e.g. 10, 25, 50, 100
1c) These tick boxes could also be used for album (and perhaps band and song?) charts in the future. e.g. select all items you want in a chart, and choose 'add to existing chart' or 'add to new chart'.
1d) When these new 'fun' charts are introduced, you should be have options to choose which one will be your overall (rank scored) chart, so people can switch between their 'big charts' and 'small charts' without needing to delete.
1e) Option to make 'fun' charts public or private.
1f) Make 'Wish List' a chart, so you can re-order this chart into the order you'd like to listen to/buy albums.

2) Have the 'Delete Chart' option ONLY delete your chart. NOT your ratings of other charts. This will make even more sense when we have multiple charts (deleting one should not remove all contributions towards other charts), and also if you incorporate 1d), meaning users may just be preparing to switch to another chart as their overall one - their ratings of other charts would still be just as valid.
2a) If you don't have an overall chart at a point in time, your chart ratings should be stored TEMPORARILY, and removed after a month or so. If you want to delete all your chart ratings, you would have the option via 1a).

3) Some way of making really old ratings of a chart (that has become significantly different than what it was when those old ratings were made) to be weighted less than ratings made recently.

I think most of these ideas should be pursued, but feel free to contest or suggest other alternatives.

albummaster

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Gender: Male

Location: Spain

Site Admin

Your ideas sound really interesting. Here's my initial feedback:

Xavygravy wrote:

1) Give users an option, when they go to their 'ratings' page via their profile, to delete all of the ratings under a certain category (e.g. if you are on the songs page, the option to delete all song rankings, NOT all ratings in general).

Yes, this is a good idea and can be added.

Xavygravy wrote:

1a) As an addition to 1), perhaps having tick boxes next to each item, and at the top having options such as 'delete', 'change rating to...', 'listened', 'collection', 'wishlist', and later: 'tags'. The tick boxes should also be added to 'Collection' and 'Listened' pages.
1c) These tick boxes could also be used for album (and perhaps band and song?) charts in the future. e.g. select all items you want in a chart, and choose 'add to existing chart' or 'add to new chart'.

I think I understand what you mean here. You can do some of this already on BEA, but the current interface probably isn't very intuitive (e.g. adding each item to your collection/listened/favourites etc.) The interface in this area of the site needs overhauling.

Xavygravy wrote:

1b) To go along with 1a), we should have the option to show more items on a single page, e.g. 10, 25, 50, 100

Yes, this can be done for this section of the site (probably in conjunction with 1a/c).

Xavygravy wrote:

1d) When these new 'fun' charts are introduced, you should be have options to choose which one will be your overall (rank scored) chart, so people can switch between their 'big charts' and 'small charts' without needing to delete.

I can see what you are getting at here, but once the new system is live, you won't need to switch between charts. There will be different types of chart that you can compile (e.g. overall chart, decade charts, year charts and 'fun' charts). Comments and ratings for each of those charts will be distinct to each chart (e.g. comments on a best of 2000s chart will not visible on a best of 1950s etc). Your overall chart and fun charts will be distinct as well. In terms of scoring, your overall chart will count towards the rankings as it does now, and your decade and year charts will count to the decade and year rankings (once the functionality exists Wink

!)

Xavygravy wrote:

1e) Option to make 'fun' charts public or private.

Yes, this can be added.

Xavygravy wrote:

1f) Make 'Wish List' a chart, so you can re-order this chart into the order you'd like to listen to/buy albums.

Yes, you can almost do this already. You can assign a 5-point scale priority to each item on your wish list. You can't sort using this field at the moment, but this could be added.

Xavygravy wrote:

3) Some way of making really old ratings of a chart (that has become significantly different than what it was when those old ratings were made) to be weighted less than ratings made recently.

Yes, a bit of food for thought. There's not really an answer to this without storing a snapshot of each chart against each rating, which could get computationally expensive! Even if this was done, there's still the issue of deciding how the weighting should be calculated.

Originally, chart ratings were completely deleted when a chart was updated (because the chart is different to when it was rated). After that, BEA changed the system to show a calendar symbol against each rating referring to an older version of the same same chart. The rating still counts in full regardless of how different the new and old charts are. The older system is more accurate, and the revised system is a concession.

The deleting charts/ratings whatsit is a complex issue with lots of factors behind it, but the one thing that outweighs everything is data-integrity. In the future, your multiple charts will be separate and distinct so deleting one chart won't affect the ratings or comment of any others.