One of the things I hear hip-hop criticised for most regularly - along with "they're just talking fast", "bitches and hoes", etc. - is the widespread practice of sampling. Some people see this as uncreative and lazy, others go further and brand it "stealing" outright, despite the fact that in this day and age it is virtually impossible to get away with using a sample without clearing it legally and providing the originators of said sample with an agreed fee (on retail albums and singles anyway; it's much murkier when it comes to free albums and mixtapes because the artists ostensibly aren't making any money from the product and can thus get away with it).
Of course, this practice isn't limited to hip-hop by any stretch of the imagination, but it is probably the genre with which sampling is most linked. Early examples include Grandmaster Flash's 'Wheels of Steel', which was made up of various scratches and bits and bobs placed over famous breaks, most notably The Incredible Bongo Band's 'Apache' break, and obviously Eno and Byrne's My Life In The Bush of Ghosts, whose lead vocals were made up pretty much entirely of samples (though not musical ones).
In 1991, Biz Markie lost a case against Gilbert O'Sullivan, and in the ruling it was decided that artists/record labels must pay the owners of the material for every sample used, making sample-heavy classics of the preceding years (such as 3 Feet High & Rising, It Takes A Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back and Paul's Boutique) a near impossibility financially. It changed hip-hop in the sense that artists had to bury their samples deeper so as not to be caught, or begin to interpolate (i.e. get session musicians to play live in the studio) what previously would have been sampled.
Anyway, long story short: there are still fresh sampling cases cropping up all the time (you may remember Danger Mouse's Grey Album resulting in cease and desist orders, and subsequently how difficult that record became to find, even online, for a brief while not long after its release. More recently, Mac Miller was sued for $10million by Lord Finesse, the irony of which being that Lord Finesse was one of the main members of '90s rap crew Diggin' in the Crates, which is in itself hip-hop slang for searching through record shops to find rare samples). This thread is for a discussion on the morality of samples (there is no right or wrong answer), if and how you think the practice has changed music (and if it's for better or for worse), what some of your favourite samples ever are, and who you think has used sampling with the biggest degree of success. If you are struggling to identify a sample that you'd love to know more about, this thread could also be used as a helping hand thread whereby other users could see if they can recognise that elusive beat for you.
The view on Hip Hop has certainly changed over the past few years. Sampling is essential, and an art in itself.
If a hip hop artist were to ever use something I made as a beat, I wouldn't consider it stealing or lazy, I'd be flattered - and that's how the music industry should see things. Stealing implies that they're taking something away from the other person, but in no cases do I think someone would chose to listen to the sampled song over the original because they did it better - both will have different merits. Sampling breathes new life into potentially stale music works and allows hip hop artists to focus on what they do best - not song writing but creating beats and flow.
It irritates me that people should want to lock up art from being any further expressed by anyone else. Music, as well as all art, is always constant and shouldn't be treated like an industry.
It's all a matter of how the samples are used. I'm completely in favor of the artfully used sample, but there are many cases where a sample is used very heavily with the artist adding nothing of value to it, or placing in context that conflicts with the original song.
It's really no different than borrowing a melody, riff, lyric, bassline...etc. Rock musicians do it all the time. Dylan's discography was built on that. _________________ http://jonnyleather.com
I see nothing wrong with samples. It's only lazy if someone were to build their whole song round an already existing one without really adding anything of substance to it.
I don't have a problem with sampling, as long as the original artist is compensated...in using a sample, you are incorporating another artist's recorded work into your own. Unless the artist were to say "I don't need to be compensated...go ahead and use it". Has that ever happened, I wonder? I've never heard of it, and would understand fully if it never has...and would be surprised if it has happened.
What I DON'T like is when a sample of a very well known song is used as the entire foundation of the "new" song. What I mean by that is, come up with something of your own instead of taking a song that's already been written and putting your words on top of it. P Diddy (or whatever he calls himself this week) seems to be the master of this, particularly with "Every Breath You Take". But, looking at the other side, Sting seemed fine with it, so it may be just my personal taste stepping in. I can understand his wanting to use the song because of how it relates to what he wrote, but come on...write yourself a chorus and come up with a backing track that isn't just recordings of The Police. It smacks of laziness to me. Just my opinion.
And then there's The Verve. This is the one I know the most about, because it being a rock incident, it's more in my field of vision. The Verve obtained the rights to sample Andrew Oldham's orchestral version of "The Last Time" for "Bittersweet Symphony", but it was determined that they had used "too much of the sample". As a result, the song is now credited to Jagger & Richards, and The Verve makes not a dime off of their biggest hit. But, on the studio version, it's hard to hear anything else but the sample. On live versions of the song, without the Oldham parts, the song is actually very good, and doesn't need the strings. The sampling was too much for the song, and it got them into trouble. This bad incident (I wouldn't even think of messing with early Stones material...those guys are snakes) surprises me in that it's not used as an example to NOT make artists pay for sampling. The Verve did what they were supposed to do...and got hosed for it.
I like a lot of sampling, and I think that it does add a cool element to songs. But I think the artists being sampled should definitely be compensated...or at least be given the option. _________________ I'm leaning on the threshold
Of her mystery
And crashing through the walls
Of dying history
It's all a matter of how the samples are used. I'm completely in favor of the artfully used sample, but there are many cases where a sample is used very heavily with the artist adding nothing of value to it, or placing in context that conflicts with the original song.
It's really no different than borrowing a melody, riff, lyric, bassline...etc. Rock musicians do it all the time. Dylan's discography was built on that.
Great idea for a thread. I'll be sure to check it out often, and add the odd sample I like if I get the chance.
Now to meccalecca's viewpoint: I disagree with the first part. I understand when someone calls sampling 'stealing' - that's what it is. But not much more than stealing a cool riff, or quoting a nice line, or anything else along those lines. And that's what popular music is very often about, in countless cases anyway. I know a lot of people who totally diss rap on account, among other things, of the constant pillaging of rock songs ; and who at the same time have no problem whatsoever with Page and Plant signing their names on blatant cases of plagiarism (music and lyrics both, too). Now, when it comes to that particular band, they claim it's what they create out of their sources that's important. Why couldn't it be the case with rap?
I'm raving. Back to the point: I don't feel you can condone sampling in certain cases, and condemn it in others. You either think it's alright to quote whatever you feel like, or it's illegal and that's it. Of course you can criticize this or that sample stylistically, but on moral grounds, I do believe it's all or nothing.
As to the context it is placed in and that might conflict with the original song, I think that, first, it's very difficult, and probably subjective, to define where the conflict starts and ends ; and, second, even if the case be confirmed, chances are this conflict will be interesting.
Before I possibly post more samples as time goes by, just one or two I absolutely love :
Although the latter is extremely well-know, I think those two are great examples of crossover influences and how the result can totally overwhelm the source.
Next: an astonishing sample by Animal Collective and a John Lennon one! Stay tuned!
A recurring theme amongst some of the replies appears to be "I only like sampling if they do something creative with the sample, as opposed to ripping a song off wholesale". I understand that point of view, but sometimes a sample doesn't need to be overly manipulated or cut up to be of merit, as these great songs (hopefully) prove:
Now to meccalecca's viewpoint: I disagree with the first part. I understand when someone calls sampling 'stealing' - that's what it is. But not much more than stealing a cool riff, or quoting a nice line, or anything else along those lines. And that's what popular music is very often about, in countless cases anyway. I know a lot of people who totally diss rap on account, among other things, of the constant pillaging of rock songs ; and who at the same time have no problem whatsoever with Page and Plant signing their names on blatant cases of plagiarism (music and lyrics both, too). Now, when it comes to that particular band, they claim it's what they create out of their sources that's important. Why couldn't it be the case with rap?
I think you totally misunderstood me, or maybe I just wasn't clear. I definitely wasn't saying it's okay to do it in rock but not in rap. I was more or less trying to say that sampling in rap is really no different than sampling in rock. And it's unfair that rap gets so much crap for it, when rock music has a long history of borrowing. "Borrowed Tune" is one of my favorite Neil Young songs. The song is based on the Stones' "Lady Jane." I've got no problem with that at all.
many of my favorite hip hop records are the most sample heavy.
I do however agree with Romanelli that if a sample is used as the foundation of a song, then it's hardly different than a cover, and the original artist needs to be compensated accordingly
this may not the the greatest use of sampling in history, but I couldn't help but think of this classic when reading this thread. Makes me laugh every time.
I like a lot of sampled music, and I think albums like Paul's Boutique, 3 feet high and rising, Since I Left You, Donuts, and others show that it's really an art and can produce masterworks.
I have nothing against sampled music except in one sense: I either have to not know the sample or the sample has to be reasonably manipulated for me to have some fun in uncovering it. For example I perk up whenever I notice Lil B uses Slowdive or Kendrick Lamar uses Beach House because they don't use a lot of samples I otherwise know. Or I can enjoy Daft Punk's Discovery even though half of it is largely unmanipulated rip-offs because I don't know the sample. Even if it's used well like Mtume's "Juicy Fruit" I don't mind. What I'm really trying to say is that I really hate most mash-ups. Except this one:
EDIT: As far as the morality of using samples, I'm not really sure, but I feel as if people shouldn't have to pay to use samples. I mean, the bassist from the Strokes can openly admit he jacked Clash basslines on Is This It? with no reprimand but had they sampled Clash basslines they would have to pay or be sued? Yeah, you might get some musicians you don't agree with sampling your stuff, and you'll make less money, but I personally don't see that as barriers.
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