Soul music obviously means a lot to you, stretching back can you explain your fascination with Motown and other equivalent forces of the genre and what you intrigues you within the more traditional 20th century styles of its music? Do you prefer the modern contemporary R&B that exploded from the New Jack Swing movement?
Soul music obviously means a lot to you, stretching back can you explain your fascination with Motown and other equivalent forces of the genre and what you intrigues you within the more traditional 20th century styles of its music? Do you prefer the modern contemporary R&B that exploded from the New Jack Swing movement?
Well, I grew up in a household that was constantly playing music, and a lot of those early memories are of soul music, particularly Sam Cooke, The Impressions, and Smokey Robinson, but also others as well (Aretha, Otis, Solomon Burke spring to mind). Without wanting to sound too schmaltzy (or cliched, though I fear I'm gonna be fighting an uphill battle), there just seems to be something so pure and so passionate about soul music, not bogged down by the calculated, complex nature of so much other pop music - for example, when you hear Etta James' 'I'd Rather Go Blind', you can imagine it being done in one take, almost completely off-the-cuff, not slaved over for hours and hours by lots bearded men being frustratingly finickity as they try reconfigure their soaring middle eights. That, of course, isn't true for all soul music (the likes of Stevie Wonder, and even early solo Mayfield, spring to mind), and presents are regressive, black and white viewpoint that helps nobody at all, but I still think that this particular mass generalisation holds true in a lot of cases. It's why my favourite Beatles record is their debut - it's the one that feels the most indebted to that free-wheeling soul spirit ('Chains' and 'Baby It's You' and 'Twist and Shout' are all lovably sincere R'n'B covers in any case, and all the better for it). Outside of that abstract notion of "feeling", though, I love the harmonies, the warm, home-spun tone that much of the instrumentation takes on (speaking more of the Stax side here than the Motown side, obviously), the themes of new love or recently lost love that are pretty much universal throughout the genre. It's just a sound and an era that's full of so many gems - I get the same feeling from the soul music of the sixties that I get from the reggae of the seventies.
As for whether I prefer traditional soul or modern R'n'B, it's unanswerable. I love and hate lots of things from both categories, although perhaps the most interesting era of R'n'B and soul music (for me) is that transitional period, when Sly made Fresh, when quiet storm and disco broke, when Marvin Gaye was making Here, My Dear and I Want You, when Luther Vandross came to prominence, when Sade smoothed every single edge the genre ever had. Those fifteen or so years (let's say '72-'87-ish) were full of all these experimental sounds, synths and drum machines and attempts to make something airy and fluid, but still full of that same passion and those same old lyrical themes and The Inarguable, Imperial Power of the Vocalist that came with "traditional" soul music. Modern R'n'B takes that experimentalism even further, taking in bits and pieces of all sorts of things (but mainly hip-hop and house music) to present this sort-of post-genre, homogeneous whole, but occasionally doing so in such an interesting and impassioned way that it feels like the best thing out there. I mean, Erykah Badu has this post-hip-hop, Afrocentric, quiet storm thing going on that I adore. Lauryn Hill really reminds me of Stevie Wonder. D'Angelo is exploring that half-hidden funk that Sly Stone started. But these things don't have a clear influence from "traditional" soul, rather that transitional, experimental period, after which modern R'n'B basically cut its ties with the sixties (outside of retro retreads, like Amy Winehouse's Back to Black or Kelis' Food). I find modern R'n'B more interesting (after all, there's more elements there to think about), but do I find it more enjoyable? Occasionally, perhaps, but no, not on the whole. It all depends on which specific releases we're talking about. I'd have to take that question on a case-by-case basis. _________________ 2021 in full effect. Come drop me some recs. Y'all know what I like.
Hey Skinny as a big fan of the "haters gonna hate" notes, I wonder if someday they will come back, or they were just a periodically ongoing gag?
Maybe one day. I liked that chart; it was fun. Some of those criticisms were hilarious.
Antonio-Pedro wrote:
Also What makes Lazy Line Painter Jane be in your chart instead of others B&S albums?
Oh man, the production. It's the best B&S have ever sounded. Murdoch always said that The Velvet Underground were a massive influence, and it's really on those EPs where that becomes most apparent. Also, it's just the best of all worlds when it comes to the band - the twee naïveté of Tigermilk, the smart, Morrissey-minus-cynicism lyrics of Sinister, the catchy pop nous of Waitress. For me, at this particular moment in my life, those EPs represent the band at their very best, though in the future I might go change my mind and decide that their best is actually one of those other three albums I just mentioned above. They're all amazing, really. _________________ 2021 in full effect. Come drop me some recs. Y'all know what I like.
I find modern R'n'B more interesting ... but do I find it more enjoyable? Occasionally, perhaps, but no, not on the whole.
It seems like this distinction between "enjoyable" and "interesting" is one that isn't acknowledged by many of the old guard, or at least the former seems to be systematically undervalued compared to the latter. It might be that "enjoyment" is more dependent on the details of a listener's background (like the fact that you grew up listening to soul music), while interesting and/or unique music will be more universally appreciated. Do you think there's any truth to that notion? When you're putting together a chart, how much weight do you give to how "interesting" the music is?
It seems like this distinction between "enjoyable" and "interesting" is one that isn't acknowledged by many of the old guard, or at least the former seems to be systematically undervalued compared to the latter. It might be that "enjoyment" is more dependent on the details of a listener's background (like the fact that you grew up listening to soul music), while interesting and/or unique music will be more universally appreciated. Do you think there's any truth to that notion? When you're putting together a chart, how much weight do you give to how "interesting" the music is?
Hmmmm, I'll think on this and come back to you. For now, here's a cod-reggae Peter Frampton cover:
You seem to have a great ear for sexy music, and I mean beyond the typical "Sexual Healing"/"I Wanna Be Your Dog" stuff. What are the sexiest albums and songs you've come across so far?
You've got the greatest hold on American funk of any user here. What are some great albums and songs representing the origins and extensions of American funk, beyond something like the Kuti family and the Soul Jazz New Orleans Funk series? Where does disco fit into all of this?
I like that no matter how much the chart has changed in the three-plus years Ive been on BEA, The FLaming Lips, Pavement, Ghostface, Another Wu-Tang connection, Nick Drake and Curtis Mayfield are always present. While there always seems to be new, exciting favorites, there's still that acknowledgement of the unwavering, long-time core treasures. It's nice. And Space Jam is always the best.
Anyways, I guess for a questione, which album on this chart do you think is either the farthest stylistically from what you consider your usual type of favorite music (or I guess which was the most surprising album you found yourself absolutely loving- let's go ahead and exclude Supernatural), and which album do you think best represents your overall view of what makes up your personal music-listening DNA (if that's possible)?
It seems like this distinction between "enjoyable" and "interesting" is one that isn't acknowledged by many of the old guard, or at least the former seems to be systematically undervalued compared to the latter. It might be that "enjoyment" is more dependent on the details of a listener's background (like the fact that you grew up listening to soul music), while interesting and/or unique music will be more universally appreciated. Do you think there's any truth to that notion? When you're putting together a chart, how much weight do you give to how "interesting" the music is?
I guess I was speaking in a more contextual sense when I said "interesting". I mean, in order for me to enjoy music it has to hold my interest, at least 95% of the time anyway (I guess I do often let music wash over me, but even then it has to interest me otherwise it's pretty worthless). I don't think the two are in any way mutually exclusive - although I would say that good music is interesting music, whereas the reverse isn't always true. I don't know, "enjoyment" seems like a completely subjective thing, whereas the vast majority of us here can probably agree that the way Oval's 94diskont or Basinski's Disintegration Loops were put together was interesting, whether it's music we like or not. But no, I don't give any weight whatsoever to how interesting something is when I add it to my chart - it's completely based on how much I enjoy something, though how much I enjoy something is often heavily based on how interesting I find it. Sorry for the vague, muddled, incoherent answer. It's a difficult question.
Kool Keith Sweat wrote:
You seem to have a great ear for sexy music, and I mean beyond the typical "Sexual Healing"/"I Wanna Be Your Dog" stuff. What are the sexiest albums and songs you've come across so far?
I don't really know. What I actually have sex to is pretty fucking beige - lots of Sade, The xx, the first Erykah Badu album. I find there's something inherently sexy - albeit somewhat disconnected - about Burial's Untrue. I think lots of post-disco is pretty sexy, especially Luther Vandross' Never Too Much and Prince's Dirty Mind (the latter of which is pure filth). Gregory Isaacs is also sexy as fuck, especially when he's in lovers rock mode, so More Gregory would make the list. Then, of course, there's the first two D'Angelo records, which are mad sexy. In terms of songs, I've lost my old sex playlist that I used to have at university, but it definitely had Ciara and Bow Wow's 'Like You' on it, if that means anything.
Kool Keith Sweat wrote:
You've got the greatest hold on American funk of any user here. What are some great albums and songs representing the origins and extensions of American funk, beyond something like the Kuti family and the Soul Jazz New Orleans Funk series? Where does disco fit into all of this?
It's not actually something I've really read into or studied - I guess I just gravitate towards funky shit. So, in that sense, I'm not really too clued up on the origins at all. I guess early stuff that I love and would definitely classify as funk includes The Meters, James Brown's late '60s stuff, maybe some Billy Preston (The Wildest Organ in Town), Shirley Scott & The Soul Saxes - all of that shit is dope as fuck. I would highly recommend The Meters' self-titled and Struttin', basically anything released by James Brown between '68 and '73, Marva Whitney's It's My Thing, Shirley Scott & The Soul Saxes' self-titled (honestly, seek that last one out). For me, I guess, funk really kicked off in the '70s, with that almost minimalist Shaft and Superfly soundtrack sound. Sly Stone's Fresh is absolutely essential, though I guess you already knew that. There's a lot of great jazz-funk - Donald Byrd's late-'60s/early-'70s period is fantastic (Flying Free; Places and Spaces), Archie Shepp's Attica Blues, Roy Ayers' Stoned Soul Picnic, that sort of thing (though none of those releases are overtly funky, with the exception of perhaps Attica Blues at times). The funkiest jazz ever got was Jack Johnson, On the Corner, Headhunters, the Weather Report's Sweetnighter, Lonnie Liston Smith's Expansions - that '72-'74 period, which was just killer. (And, later on, Art Webb's Mr. Flute, which is actually on my chart.) One of the things I love about Curtis Mayfield so much is how his albums put this hectic, gutbusting, political funk right next to these impossibly sweet, slower love songs - he uses that formula best on Curtis, Roots, There's No Place Like America Today. James Brown's The Payback is another obvious essential. Then there's George Clinton, who deserves much more than a passing reference, but the breadth and scope of Funkadelic and Parliament is just crazy - Parliament was obviously also the basis for g-funk (an overlooked essential - MC Eiht's We Come Strapped), so that's just fucking huge.
Not sure where disco fits into everything. The muted guitar sound is the obvious link, but disco was much cleaner. It's still dance music, though, essentially. Also, early funk seems incredibly manly, whereas disco was leaner and had all these ties to gay culture, plus it definitely sounded "whiter" than early funk, though maybe that's just a subconscious link my mind makes. As I said above, I love that post-disco sound - Luther Vandross' Never Too Much, Prince's Dirty Mind, Evelyn Champagne King's Get Loose, the first couple of Zapp albums, Friends by Shalamar, No Parking on the Dance Floor, Grace Jones, Kashif (who also wrote 'Love Come Down', one of the greatest songs of all-time), Junior Giscombe's 'Mama Used to Say', Patrice Rushen, early-'80s Chaka. All that shit is mad dope. Then, of course, there's DJ Quik, who came much later but is basically just the funkiest motherfucker who ever lived - he did everything from that early, New York-inspired minimal, basic funk, through to g-funk, onto the lush, '80s-inspired soundscapes of Rhythm-al-ism and Suga Free's Street Gospel (two of the finest produced hip-hop albums ever made), even onto some mad Southern bounce shit, and all sorts of shit in between, but always funky as hell. That man is funk personified. Beyond that, Pimp C is hella funky - Super Tight is incredible, and should realistically be in my Top 10, given how much I listen to that shit. It's probably a culturally inappropriate analogy, but that shit really is like soul food to me, like gumbo.
And everybody needs Dam-Funk in their life. Toeachizown and Higher (with Steve Arrington, from Slave) are modern funk masterpieces.
Saoirse wrote:
Anyways, I guess for a questione, which album on this chart do you think is either the farthest stylistically from what you consider your usual type of favorite music (or I guess which was the most surprising album you found yourself absolutely loving- let's go ahead and exclude Supernatural), and which album do you think best represents your overall view of what makes up your personal music-listening DNA (if that's possible)?
I guess Faraquet's The View from this Tower isn't necessarily the type of music I normally gravitate towards, but it's hardly outside of my comfort zone either. That angular post-hardcore sound isn't always my favourite, but done well it's something I love. Also, I got really fucking tired of drum'n'bass at around the age of 19 or 20, after one too many nights pilled up at aggy raves listening to jump up, so maybe the inclusion of Omni Trio surprises even me, but it's a lot more nuanced than your average jump up record. Sandy Denny's Like an Old Fashioned Waltz, on paper, is the kind of too-British, too-safe, almost boring folk-rock that often doesn't do a lot for me, but her voice and the strength of the songs is just undeniable. As for the record that best represents my taste? It might sound ridiculous, but given that it's the first record I owned and is one that's stuck with me and obviously had a massive impact, it might just be the Space Jam soundtrack, although Cuban Linx is total comfort food for me. I can listen to dusty, luxurious New York hip-hop pretty much any time of day, and the same vibe that record has is obviously passed down to my favourite albums of recent years like Pinata or Roc Marci's first two records. Burial's Untrue, Dizzee Rascal's Boy in da Corner, The Streets' Original Pirate Material, Blu & Exile's Below the Heavens, The Flaming Lips' Clouds Taste Metallic, Pavement's Wowee Zowee - they're all other massive contenders. Those are albums that all had a huge impact on me during those formative years, so any of those would probably be a decent answer too. _________________ 2021 in full effect. Come drop me some recs. Y'all know what I like.
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