Amount of votes should affects! - Suggestions

Jabapac

Gender: Male
Age: 36

Hi,

I think for rating, the amount of ratings should affects the average: the more votes the higher the rating. because items with low number of votes (less popular) are away from the "dislike" effect from users, while popular items facing that matter more. what do you think?

HigherThanTheSun

Gender: Male
Age: 33
Location: UK

The average rating is already affected by the number of votes it has. The formula is to the right of an album's average rating at the bottom of the page.

This means an album with one vote of 100 will not have an average rating of 100, it would be 78.
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Jabapac

Gender: Male
Age: 36

HigherThanTheSun wrote:

The average rating is already affected by the number of votes it has. The formula is to the right of an album's average rating at the bottom of the page.

This means an album with one vote of 100 will not have an average rating of 100, it would be 78.

Right, but that formula loses it's impact with large number of votes (more than 100 for example). so it needs to add one another formula for the large numbers. for example if we have 2 albums with the average of 80, one has 200 votes and the other has 900 votes, they can't be equal. another flaw with our recent formula is that if the average of an album was close to the site mean average it will does no impact at all.

Defago
Your Most Favorite User

Gender: Male
Age: 31
Location: Lima

Um... If one album got 200 80's and another one 900 80's, the one which got 900 would still be higher. The mean site average loses importance the more ratings an object gets.

Besides, popular isn't necessarily better.

Hayden

Location: CDMX

Nah..

That formula doesn't mix well with BEA's format...

I think it's good the way it is now Smile

I do understand what you were trying to get across though I don't think the 2 other replies fully understood it...

Jabapac

Gender: Male
Age: 36

Defago wrote:

Um... If one album got 200 80's and another one 900 80's, the one which got 900 would still be higher. The mean site average loses importance the more ratings an object gets.

Not really, with such high numbers there wouldn't be such a deference since the "m" of the formula is recently equals 10, but even though the flaw of "if the average is near to the site average" that I mentioned still exists.

Defago wrote:

Besides, popular isn't necessarily better.

It's about the popular facing more dislikers, because the popular gets known by many people, those who are interested of or not, but the "less popular" ones are known mostly by those who are interested only, which makes them get higher ratings.

Jabapac

Gender: Male
Age: 36

Hayden wrote:

I think it's good the way it is now Smile

With our recent formula we will forever facing the problem of increasing the "m" (recently 10) for the items which get averages less than the mean site average, which will always pulls them up and never let them down to the places they deserve + it does them an opposite function: the less votes the higher the rating. but with my suggested formula that won't happen and yet will helping reduce the effect of the abused ratings against the popular items that the recent formula does "somehow" but even better I guess!

Imagine 10 users have agreed to take down the average of some album, and they all gave it 5/100, that will does their purpose, but at the same time the number of votes have been increased 10 votes, now that will be with the album' side and reduce the previous impact. and it's much better than the 3 standard deviations that used in apart right now which doesn't work in all situations.

albummaster
Janitor

Gender: Male
Location: Spain
Site Admin

Interesting (but I didn't understand everything). How would you represent the updated formula in mathematical terms? (I'd be interested in seeing).

FWIW, the number of votes does affect the average at the moment and is one of the variables in the formula. The reason the average rating exists here is because it is a metric that is not based on popularity (as opposed to the aggregated charts), so it provides an alternate window on things. Increasing the popularity element in the average rating calculation would probably end up reducing the variety of albums in the two charts (because the overall chart and top rated charts will become more similar) (the items with the most ratings are likely to be the items people have added into their charts).

Jabapac

Gender: Male
Age: 36

albummaster wrote:

Interesting (but I didn't understand everything). How would you represent the updated formula in mathematical terms? (I'd be interested in seeing).

Don't know how actually, but for now I'm thinking of using the site mean average as an invariable value of 50/100. that will help expanding the formula's impact to cover a way larger numbers of votes.

It's not for the sake of popularity, but just to make our rating system more accurate for the reasons I have mentioned before, like reducing the "dislike" effect that popular items are facing, not necessarily abusing, but because the more popular the more known by "not" fan or interested groups.

albummaster
Janitor

Gender: Male
Location: Spain
Site Admin

Jabapac wrote:

Don't know how actually, but for now I'm thinking of using the site mean average as an invariable value of 50/100. that will help expanding the formula's impact to cover a way larger numbers of votes.

It's not for the sake of popularity, but just to make our rating system more accurate for the reasons I have mentioned before, like reducing the "dislike" effect that popular items are facing, not necessarily abusing, but because the more popular the more known by "not" fan or interested groups.

Code:

Average Rating = (n ÷ (n + m)) × av + (m ÷ (n + m)) × AV

where:
av = mean average rating an album has currently received.
n = number of ratings an album has currently received.
m = minimum number of ratings required for an album to appear in the 'top-rated' chart (currently 10).
AV = the site mean average rating for an album (currently 76/100).

the site mean average album rating is pretty much stable at about 76%, but let's see what happens if the value is artificially reduced to 50%:

A high rated album (mean 90%) with just five ratings:
(5 ÷ (5 + 10)) × 90 + (10 ÷ (5 + 10)) × 76 = 80%
(5 ÷ (5 + 10)) × 90 + (10 ÷ (5 + 10)) × 50 = 63%

A high rated album (mean 90%) with 100 ratings:
(100 ÷ (100 + 10)) × 90 + (10 ÷ (100 + 10)) × 76 = 89%
(100 ÷ (100 + 10)) × 90 + (10 ÷ (100 + 10)) × 50 = 86%

Plugging a lower value of AV lowers the average rating of items that haven't been rated very much, but it's also slightly misleading because AV is not derived from the data on the site & the average ends up much lower than the mean. People with charts might not like their average to be much lower than it really is, so it might not be very popular (there's a very big difference between the two items when an AV of 50 is used). I think using the site mean, it looks a 'truer' average, and the item with more votes still wins out on top (everything else being equal)