Grunge for me falls into two camps...The punk/Hardcore version (Nirvana, Mudhoney, Hole etc) which I really loved or the metal version (Alice In Chains, Pearl Jam etc) which I don’t like.
I’m voting Britpop (it’s a British thing) but I feel that Grunge has aged far better.
I don't feel like that is a good division as far as grunge goes. There are many bands that don't fall under either category, first being Pearl Jam. They were something like 90s version of 70s rock, with many other influences (punk, post-punk), hardly metal. And "metal" is too broad of a term generally, early Soundgarden sounded nothing like Alice in Chains although both would be considered metal. And then you have Temple of the Dog with members of both Soundgarden and Pearl Jam, and they sounded nothing like those two bands... Grunge was somewhat more diverse, although Britpop surely wasn't just basic pop-rock.
Yeah you’re quite right ‘metal’ was the wrong term to use but yeah didn’t like those grunge bands that I guess I found a tad (no pun intended) too heavy rock sounding.
The other thing I now realise is that over here in the UK during the Britpop era we were so blinded by the light we stopped listening to so much great stuff being released by American artists. Many of my favourite ever albums were released during this period and it wasn’t until a few years later I finally caught up. Sparklehorse, Elliott Smith, Low and my favourite Flaming Lips album ‘Clouds Taste Metallic’ for example.
This is a good point that me and a friend have said for years and i've even heard sleaford mods say something similar in that britpop and oasis, in this country, set music back for a short time. It did for me. Everything from 94 to 96ish had to be of a certain heritage, guitar based music that is. Before britpop I was getting into sonic youth and stereolab etc and all that went out the window for a while. It was probably around 2000 when I started getting into the people you mention, also granddaddy. Strange when I think about it.
Britpop on the merits of Pulp alone. Couldn't care less about Oasis, Blur, or Suede, but when you've got an album like Different Class on your side, it's an easy competition.
Jimmy DreadOld skool like Happy ShopperModeratorProfile 555 Dub Street
The other thing I now realise is that over here in the UK during the Britpop era we were so blinded by the light we stopped listening to so much great stuff being released by American artists. Many of my favourite ever albums were released during this period and it wasn’t until a few years later I finally caught up. Sparklehorse, Elliott Smith, Low and my favourite Flaming Lips album ‘Clouds Taste Metallic’ for example.
This is a good point that me and a friend have said for years and i've even heard sleaford mods say something similar in that britpop and oasis, in this country, set music back for a short time. It did for me. Everything from 94 to 96ish had to be of a certain heritage, guitar based music that is. Before britpop I was getting into sonic youth and stereolab etc and all that went out the window for a while. It was probably around 2000 when I started getting into the people you mention, also granddaddy. Strange when I think about it.
If you think about lads who were a) British and b) of 'our vintage' we tended to get a lot of our cues from rags like the NME and Select. They weren't bothering with highlighting some of the great music that came out of America during Britpop's heyday as, for once, the centre of the British music universe was homegrown 'talent'. This of course shifted copies at a time we all felt just that little more patriotic, so no need to bother bigging up little US bands. There were a couple of exceptions - I remember Beck and (naturally) the Foo Fighters getting a lot of column inches. Prior to Britpop all grunge bands like L7 had to do were drop their knickers and throw used tampons into the crowd to get attention.
Cast your mind back a couple of years though and the NME were all over bands like Sugar, Pavement, Sonic Youth, Smashing Pumpkins and so forth. In fact I think Pavement were about the only band from outside the UK I would have gladly sacrificed my Oasis albums for at the time... _________________ 'Reggae' & t'ing Folk 'n Stuff SHAMELESS RECORD DEALER PLUG
This is a good point that me and a friend have said for years and i've even heard sleaford mods say something similar in that britpop and oasis, in this country, set music back for a short time. It did for me. Everything from 94 to 96ish had to be of a certain heritage, guitar based music that is. Before britpop I was getting into sonic youth and stereolab etc and all that went out the window for a while. It was probably around 2000 when I started getting into the people you mention, also granddaddy. Strange when I think about it.
If you think about lads who were a) British and b) of 'our vintage' we tended to get a lot of our cues from rags like the NME and Select. They weren't bothering with highlighting some of the great music that came out of America during Britpop's heyday as, for once, the centre of the British music universe was homegrown 'talent'. This of course shifted copies at a time we all felt just that little more patriotic, so no need to bother bigging up little US bands. There were a couple of exceptions - I remember Beck and (naturally) the Foo Fighters getting a lot of column inches. Prior to Britpop all grunge bands like L7 had to do were drop their knickers and throw used tampons into the crowd to get attention.
Cast your mind back a couple of years though and the NME were all over bands like Sugar, Pavement, Sonic Youth, Smashing Pumpkins and so forth. In fact I think Pavement were about the only band from outside the UK I would have gladly sacrificed my Oasis albums for at the time...[/quote]
Ha, the tampon incident was "the word" again, I think. Yeah, funny thing is that the last album I was knocked out by pre britpop was the first Pavement record. Courtesy of mr John peel.
mickilennialThe Most Trusted Name in NewsProfile Detroit
Yeah you’re quite right ‘metal’ was the wrong term to use but yeah didn’t like those grunge bands that I guess I found a tad (no pun intended) too heavy rock sounding.
Nah, you’re right to bring up ‘metal’ as a point of reference. Grunge was a really interesting scene that was kind of a spiderweb of counterculture that encompassed many aspects of several styles that were developing at the time including alternative rock, hardcore punk, noise rock, heavy metal, and everything in-between. I suppose the only thing really linking bands together outside of Green River was that the ideas were homogenized through the concept of earnest, organic angst and grimey distorted guitars. Grunge at its purest was the noisy, no frills-do as you please motto on a wall of sound that only served to express is discontent and anger.
Some bands used glam rock as a model, others used hardcore punk, some heavy metal, and others noise rock. I think Grunge’s lack of a strict “sound” (after all it was more of a scene than a genre in the early eighties) is part of what made it interesting and easy to find the kind of expression you wanted.
I will say one thing – it’s probably ironic that most post-grunge bands use Pearl Jam’s model for Grunge instead of Nirvana, Soundgarden, Malfunkshun, or any of the others. I think that’s why Grunge deteriorated; one sound became contemporary and another became exploited by alternative metal musicians who, in my opinion, weren’t really any good.
I will say one thing – it’s probably ironic that most post-grunge bands use Pearl Jam’s model for Grunge instead of Nirvana, Soundgarden, Malfunkshun, or any of the others. I think that’s why Grunge deteriorated; one sound became contemporary and another became exploited by alternative metal musicians who, in my opinion, weren’t really any good.
By "Pearl Jam model" you mean more classic rock than punk sound? And it's partially true, grunge was divided into post-grunge and alternative metal, though there are so many bands who cite Nirvana, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam and others as influences, and they're neither alt metal nor post-grunge... I think it's too complex to generalise. And sorry to hear you don't like alt metal, I think there are some fantastic and unique bands in the genre, but I'm just dumb 19 year old Croatian heh _________________ Overall chart Fake overall chart
Anyone who has studied contemporary music would think you're wrong and have presented arguments based on evidence and analysis where scenes and influences develop into styles.
sethmadsen wrote:
If you can find me 20 to 50 music publications pre-1987 calling it pop-punk, well then I'll have to agree with you.
Until then I feel like you are finding reasons to call me out.
Yeah, I’m not even going to offer that an in-depth response since punk publications sans Trasher (which punks hated) were inconsistent and focused on different aspects of things. I feel like you are making up reasons because you are defensive. A band does not need to identify as a genre to be a genre or be relevant to the development of it.
Genres are fluid, but are often defined by facts; and as such are defined by art critics just like any medium in the past. You’re just being pedantic and grasping at straws because I refute your statements and find your perception absurd. With that in mind, I’m done with this conversation and will not be replying to it further.
I find your perception absurd.
If you walked into a bar in the 80s and said, hey, I love your pop-punk music to any of those guys writing it at the time, I bet they'd punch you in the face. And I'm only labeling it as such because some asshat decided that's what the vernacular shall be.
And you must admit part of why you won't reply to me is because you know that term wasn't agreed upon for those bands until the past decade or so. Hell even Green Day wasn't considered pop-punk until the real pop-punk genre - the one we all started using in the mid to late 90s started existing, and then many said that Green Day was responsible for starting it.
To those "true punk rockers" it is a disgrace to be called pop punk because that's what stuff like Sum 41 is - and to allow that to be part of the Punk aesthetic is just offensive. Calling The Ramones to those who were Ramones fans before pop-punk existed is offensive to those Ramones fans.
If you don't realize what I'm saying is true, then you learned all you know about punk rock on the internet. Period.
Hey flannel shirt brigade, grunge is a blast from the past. Am sitting here keeping britpop alive with my G&T and this on vinyl 😉 As You Were by Liam Gallagher
RoundTheBendI miss the comfort in being sadProfile Ground Control
A band does not need to identify as a genre to be a genre or be relevant to the development of it.
I can totally agree with this in theory, but you gotta admit when you have a lead singer of a pop-punk band saying he hates pop punk... there appears to be a disconnect?
RoundTheBendI miss the comfort in being sadProfile Ground Control
Hey flannel shirt brigade, grunge is a blast from the past. Am sitting here keeping britpop alive with my G&T and this on vinyl 😉 As You Were by Liam Gallagher
Does that mean Neil Young (somehow often called the Father of Grunge, look don't pull a Gowi on me, here's the article and no I don't really agree, but shit it appears I have to defend anything I've ever seen or heard before with some people: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/flashback-neil-young-emerges-as-the-godfather-of-g runge-in-1991-20150303) isn't around anymore?
And again, like I said about those whining about angst, this isn't funny. All those people are dead because they overdosed or killed themselves because of the immense mental anguish they were going through.
So yeah... totally cool to point that out... I guess.
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