Coldplay ARoBTTH VS Interpol TOTBL - Music

RoundTheBend

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AfterHours wrote:

Haha, no worries 😁

I know youre basically kidding but do know that just because I feel Bono/U2 is a far cry from Tim Buckley or Schubert (and so on), and some steps down from Talk Talk's peak or Bark Psychosis' Hex, doesnt mean I dont think some of their work is superb, such as Joshua Tree. Its a truly great album. I simply don't feel its one of the most creative, profound, emotionally affecting and transcendent works in all of human history -- or even close really. There are echelons -- expressively, depth conveyed, and so forth -- between Beethoven's 9th or Mahler's 9th or Verdi's Requiem (etc) and U2 or whoever. Upon experiencing a work, I simply show these differences by their placement in my ratings scale (or at least a meticulous attempt at doing so).

Of course. How they speak to me might be different (meaning I really do get a similar emotional/mental high off a good chunk of their work), but would I say they are the culmination of the most complex/powerful emotional and mental works of art ever, no. And of course I'm pretty sure The Doors or VU don't respect that honor either. But, yes, I was absolutely kidding. And yes, it is good to have a comparison/bench mark, especially in the subjective, as things are often incredibly relative. It's even more difficult to compare something written hundreds of years apart, imo.

Then there's the mentality of do you dig it or not and nothing else matters (a bit of reader response theory).

Anyway, we respectfully disagree on some small elements, but I think we do agree on a good chunk of it, which is great. I just thought I'd tease you for defending the Joshua Tree is all :). Thanks for playing along.

AfterHours

Gender: Male

Location: The Zone

craola wrote:

I played Schubert growing up, and I am sure you have a better understanding of him and his music than I do, but I can't say I'm totally unfamiliar with his work. I enjoy Schubert just fine. To be clear, my problem with the piece you suggested isn't the piece - it's the vocalist.

Example? I like Tim's music just fine, but Tim was a prick who spent more time writing about his estranged son, Jeff, than involving himself in his life (see: Dream Letter). I have listened to quite a bit of Tim's music and I find his songwriting much stronger than his performances, personally. Do you have an example of this ethereal/metaphysical realm you speak of? The closest I can think of is Song of the Siren, which was performed more ethereally and metaphysically by This Mortal Coil.

Jeff Buckley absolutely hits me in places no one else does. Ethereal? Absolutely, on All Flowers In Time Bend Towards the Sun, Morning Theft and You & I. Metaphysical? Yes, particularly on live versions of What Will You Say? and Dream Brother.

Jeff has covered some of his father's tunes, and I think he eclipses them.

eta: did some poking around online out of curiosity, and the ranges on these two guys are both pretty impressive:

Tim Buckley: F#2 - A5
Jeff Buckley: C3 - F5

eta#2:

I was thinking about this a lot after posting, and I suppose I can get on board with Tim Buckley having moments of that same intensity (Gypsy Woman, Happy Time, et al). I suppose there are a few reasons I prefer Jeff to Tim. For one, Jeff has a better batting average for me personally. That's unfair, I suppose, given the volume of stuff the two artists released, but I can't think of a dud in Jeff's discography. In Tim's, there are plenty. He does this great stuff that walks the line between jazz and blues that I love. But he also goes into this cheesy folksy stuff with forced lyrics that reminds me of the theme to The Hobbit cartoon. Ultimately, there's more of that than the stuff I enjoy. Again, just my Seth or whatever.

Particularly his two most experimental albums, Lorca and Starsailor. Blue Afternoon, not as strongly felt, but still extraordinary. Happy Sad approaches this but hasn't culminated his art yet. Lorca (the track) is probably the best example of what I mean. Driftin', Anonymous Proposition, Song to the Siren, as well, and yes, Gypsy Woman, etc, too.

Re: Schubert ... Ah okay, cool. Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau IS Schubert's lieder to many, perhaps because he can express such depth of emotion, heft and beauty of tone, without losing any sense of nobility and grace, which could be considered essential to Schubert (nobility and grace in the face of imminent disaster/death). He is also amazing at subtle, fluid character transformation and in his nuanced, gestured articulation of phrase. But if you're not into his renditions and would prefer something with more overt drama and "expressionist", Peter Schreier's rather famous and somewhat notorious rendition (with Richter as pianist) is exceptional in this regard (even if it isn't as idiomatic and subtle, it is still very effective, and among my favorites). Jonas Kaufman's recent recording was very recommendable if you're looking for more "operatic color". Werner Gura / Berner, is also very very good.
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Last edited by AfterHours on 10/10/2018 06:06; edited 1 time in total

AfterHours

Gender: Male

Location: The Zone

sethmadsen wrote:

AfterHours wrote:

Haha, no worries 😁

I know youre basically kidding but do know that just because I feel Bono/U2 is a far cry from Tim Buckley or Schubert (and so on), and some steps down from Talk Talk's peak or Bark Psychosis' Hex, doesnt mean I dont think some of their work is superb, such as Joshua Tree. Its a truly great album. I simply don't feel its one of the most creative, profound, emotionally affecting and transcendent works in all of human history -- or even close really. There are echelons -- expressively, depth conveyed, and so forth -- between Beethoven's 9th or Mahler's 9th or Verdi's Requiem (etc) and U2 or whoever. Upon experiencing a work, I simply show these differences by their placement in my ratings scale (or at least a meticulous attempt at doing so).

Of course. How they speak to me might be different (meaning I really do get a similar emotional/mental high off a good chunk of their work), but would I say they are the culmination of the most complex/powerful emotional and mental works of art ever, no. And of course I'm pretty sure The Doors or VU don't respect that honor either. But, yes, I was absolutely kidding. And yes, it is good to have a comparison/bench mark, especially in the subjective, as things are often incredibly relative. It's even more difficult to compare something written hundreds of years apart, imo.

Then there's the mentality of do you dig it or not and nothing else matters (a bit of reader response theory).

Anyway, we respectfully disagree on some small elements, but I think we do agree on a good chunk of it, which is great. I just thought I'd tease you for defending the Joshua Tree is all :). Thanks for playing along.

Yeah man, no prob, you too. Always interesting 😎

Re: The Doors/VU and Nico ... disagree, as you know (there arent too many other rock albums that are as much a creative and expressive touchstone/culmination of the genre as these two) ... Particularly disagree if we are using a description where "complexity" isn't axiomatic (which I dont think it should be). They're nowhere near as complex as Wagner or Mahler etc... Efficiency, or saying a lot with less, is also significant though.

Re: comparing hundreds of years apart ... I agree that it can be more challenging the more dissimilar they are ... from my criteria page: "In such a determination, the overall significance of the experience (its qualitative peaks and consistency and sum impact) is what is being compared to other works, not necessarily a direct comparison in content, especially if the content is dissimilar."

The mentality you mention is certainly a majority of society. Guess it just depends on how seriously one takes and evaluates an art form and how meticulous one wants to rate/rank.
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sethmadsen wrote:

Just this. One of the best movies and movie quotes ever 😁
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