Do lyrics affect how much you like a song? For me, unless the song is an instrumental, the lyrics matter a lot. I do enjoy instrumental music but I also like songs with lyrics. If I didn't care about lyrics, then instrumental music would be the only kind I listen to. If it's not an instrumental, the lyrics are part of the song. If I don't like the lyrics, I'm not going to like the song. I listen to more Christian / Gospel music than anything else. I do enjoy some secular music too, but I'm selective about what secular music I listen to. I don't just listen to any secular music. I just read this article on New Release Today.
While I don't agree with the writer on everything (for example, I'm not a fan of the artists he says he grew up on), I do agree with most of it in general. I know many of you here are not Christians so you won't agree with the writer on religion. That's not why I'm posting this link. I'm posting this link because the article, in general, is a good explanation of what I think about lyrics and how they affect how much I like a song.
Anyway, how much do the lyrics of a song matter to you when deciding whether you like a song or not?
Lyrics are very important. Being a lyricist myself, I have an understanding of what goes into the process, and how much a part of the song meaning it can be (if it's decided that a song will have lyrics).
As for this article, though, I am not in agreement with the writer on a number of levels. First, and foremost, it should be acknowledged that someone who has grown from 99% of his listening to one specific corner of the music world to 80-90% has made the smallest of a voyage into the world of being open minded. And the very small increase in other types of music he's opened himself to, the first thing he does is tell us where he finds fault with it, and how it has not opened his mind in any way.
This isn't an article about lyrics, really. It's an article telling you why you should listen to Christian music, and Christian music only. What it really get to, though, is telling you why you should be a Christian period...and a judgmental one at that.
"Much of mainstream music reflects this. It's a trail of failed relationships, unhealthy addictions, bitter confusion, and harmful vice." He's telling you that it's wrong to listen to music that speaks about what is, for most people on this earth, real life. People write songs about failed relationships, addictions, confusion, anger, hatred, and harmful things because that's the human experience. People should be (and are) able to write about what they genuinely feel and believe. And I think this writer is unfair in saying that it's wrong to do so, unfair in saying it's wrong to include these artistic expressions in your life as a listener, and that it's okay for you to like a song provided it has a positive and uplifting message.
"Songs about brokenness and pain are important. Pain and brokenness are real and should be acknowledged. But the closest the mainstream ever gets to solving these problems seems to be just indulging in more of the same vices that created the pain to begin with--drowning out suffering with dopamine."
Absolutely not true. Songs about painful and what he perceives to be bad things are important, because they are real. His claim that those issues aren't dealt with in the song is a closed minded way of saying that HE believes that the only way to deal with pain and hurt and feelings is in a Christian way...and that's as closed minded as you can get. This guy has zero understanding of how therapeutic writing a song about hard and painful experience can be, nor does he get that HEARING a song that speaks of a difficult experience can touch someone who honestly believes that no one understands their pain. For him to say that songs about these things are wrong and you shouldn't listen to them because they don't offer his preferred solution is pretty closed minded and unfair to the reader who believes him.
Me, I like Christian music. For 2 or 3 songs. If Led Zeppelin made, say, eight studio albums with nothing but songs about how the Queen Of Light took her bow, and then she turned to go, I wouldn't listen to very much Led Zeppelin. Because it's good to write about different things, which is what good lyricists do. Christian music, and Christian lyrics, are rigid and tend to be repetitive from song to song to song. Christian radio is, in reality, for NON Christians, a non stop infomercial selling their one product REALLY hard. And that can make listening a tough go. I'm surprised that more Christians don't find it tiring. How many songs can a person write about just one thing? Especially when musical expression really has no boundaries?
He clearly doesn't like music that is outside of the Christian realm. That's his choice. He doesn't have to listen to other music. He probably shouldn't be writing about music his mind is closed to, but he can write about what he wants to. Just like any songwriter can write lyrics about whatever they want to.
Lyrics ARE important. But if you're not open to hearing what a lyricist has to actually say, then what's the point? Lyrics matter, but lyrics become meaningful when the listener is open to what is being said.
I wish this were written by a person who is open to what lyrics are, not closed to what they might be. _________________ I'm leaning on the threshold
Of her mystery
And crashing through the walls
Of dying history
Lyrics are very important. Being a lyricist myself, I have an understanding of what goes into the process, and how much a part of the song meaning it can be (if it's decided that a song will have lyrics).
As for this article, though, I am not in agreement with the writer on a number of levels. First, and foremost, it should be acknowledged that someone who has grown from 99% of his listening to one specific corner of the music world to 80-90% has made the smallest of a voyage into the world of being open minded. And the very small increase in other types of music he's opened himself to, the first thing he does is tell us where he finds fault with it, and how it has not opened his mind in any way.
This isn't an article about lyrics, really. It's an article telling you why you should listen to Christian music, and Christian music only. What it really get to, though, is telling you why you should be a Christian period...and a judgmental one at that.
"Much of mainstream music reflects this. It's a trail of failed relationships, unhealthy addictions, bitter confusion, and harmful vice." He's telling you that it's wrong to listen to music that speaks about what is, for most people on this earth, real life. People write songs about failed relationships, addictions, confusion, anger, hatred, and harmful things because that's the human experience. People should be (and are) able to write about what they genuinely feel and believe. And I think this writer is unfair in saying that it's wrong to do so, unfair in saying it's wrong to include these artistic expressions in your life as a listener, and that it's okay for you to like a song provided it has a positive and uplifting message.
"Songs about brokenness and pain are important. Pain and brokenness are real and should be acknowledged. But the closest the mainstream ever gets to solving these problems seems to be just indulging in more of the same vices that created the pain to begin with--drowning out suffering with dopamine."
Absolutely not true. Songs about painful and what he perceives to be bad things are important, because they are real. His claim that those issues aren't dealt with in the song is a closed minded way of saying that HE believes that the only way to deal with pain and hurt and feelings is in a Christian way...and that's as closed minded as you can get. This guy has zero understanding of how therapeutic writing a song about hard and painful experience can be, nor does he get that HEARING a song that speaks of a difficult experience can touch someone who honestly believes that no one understands their pain. For him to say that songs about these things are wrong and you shouldn't listen to them because they don't offer his preferred solution is pretty closed minded and unfair to the reader who believes him.
Me, I like Christian music. For 2 or 3 songs. If Led Zeppelin made, say, eight studio albums with nothing but songs about how the Queen Of Light took her bow, and then she turned to go, I wouldn't listen to very much Led Zeppelin. Because it's good to write about different things, which is what good lyricists do. Christian music, and Christian lyrics, are rigid and tend to be repetitive from song to song to song. Christian radio is, in reality, for NON Christians, a non stop infomercial selling their one product REALLY hard. And that can make listening a tough go. I'm surprised that more Christians don't find it tiring. How many songs can a person write about just one thing? Especially when musical expression really has no boundaries?
He clearly doesn't like music that is outside of the Christian realm. That's his choice. He doesn't have to listen to other music. He probably shouldn't be writing about music his mind is closed to, but he can write about what he wants to. Just like any songwriter can write lyrics about whatever they want to.
Lyrics ARE important. But if you're not open to hearing what a lyricist has to actually say, then what's the point? Lyrics matter, but lyrics become meaningful when the listener is open to what is being said.
I wish this were written by a person who is open to what lyrics are, not closed to what they might be.
Well, I obviously disagree with you. He said himself that he listens to some secular music. As for being judgmental, I believe we should make very wise judgments about what kind of music (as well as books, TV shows and movies) we put into are mind. If we don't make judgments about what we put into our minds we will fill our minds with anything. And I don't believe he's anymore judgmental than anyone else. When you call someone "judgmental" you have just made a judgment about that person. I know the music he's criticizing is the vulgar and vile stuff that make up much of today's music, and I have no problem with him or anyone else criticizing this kind of stuff that I find repulsive myself. I don't find any artistic value in vileness and vulgarity and I find these kind of recordings to be a complete turnoff. I am not open to vile, vulgar lyrics and never will be regardless of whether people think it's closed-minded or not. I don't want vileness and vulgarity going into my mind. I didn't realize that by posting a link to this article that someone here would make judgments about the writer and at the same time say that the writer's the judgmental one. I just wanted to know about how important lyrics are to others here and thought the article was (for the most part), a good example of the way I look at lyrics. If that makes you think I'm judgmental, then you are making a judgment about me.
Because of the lyrics being the actual message of the song, to me, they mean everything.
God bless you always!!!
Holly
Exactly. And I don't like vile, vulgar and profane messages and don't want them going into my mind. That eliminates a whole lot of today's music (and books, TV , and movies) for me. Thank you for your response.
"Not to mention that the mainstream comes with its own set of dogmas and "rules" that will get you ostracized the moment you even appear to dissent. (i.e. J.K. Rowling)"
lol
Britney Spears is one of my favourites artists so yes you could say lyrics are very important to me.
Well, I obviously disagree with you. He said himself that he listens to some secular music. As for being judgmental, I believe we should make very wise judgments about what kind of music (as well as books, TV shows and movies) we put into are mind. If we don't make judgments about what we put into our minds we will fill our minds with anything. And I don't believe he's anymore judgmental than anyone else. When you call someone "judgmental" you have just made a judgment about that person. I know the music he's criticizing is the vulgar and vile stuff that make up much of today's music, and I have no problem with him or anyone else criticizing this kind of stuff that I find repulsive myself. I don't find any artistic value in vileness and vulgarity and I find these kind of recordings to be a complete turnoff. I am not open to vile, vulgar lyrics and never will be regardless of whether people think it's closed-minded or not. I don't want vileness and vulgarity going into my mind. I didn't realize that by posting a link to this article that someone here would make judgments about the writer and at the same time say that the writer's the judgmental one. I just wanted to know about how important lyrics are to others here and thought the article was (for the most part), a good example of the way I look at lyrics. If that makes you think I'm judgmental, then you are making a judgment about me.
First: he says he listens to SOME secular music He also says he listens to very little of it. And he clearly listens with a closed mind. Yes, we have to make wise judgements about our own lives. Yes, he's VERY judgmental. If me pointing out that a judgmental person is being judgmental makes me judgmental, so be it. You're not being fair for calling me out for doing exactly what the writer did. He does not state anywhere in the article the specific music he is referring to...that's an assumption you are making so that you can easily agree with him. You don't have to like music that you find offensive. At all. It does close the door to a whole lot of music that is really great that you will never be open to listening to, which I think is a little sad, but your choice. As for the article...you posted it, I commented on it. I'm commenting on what the author actually said, and how I feel about it. He's judging non Christian music to the hilt, as are you, but I'm the one who's wrong for calling you both out for doing so? You came right out and told me in the quote above that you judge the music that myself and I would guess most of the people here enjoy listening to as vile and vulgar. So if you want to point that judgmental finger at anyone, best include yourself as well. Maybe if you don't want your what seems to be very strict Christian values to be questioned (which you brought here, not me), you should maybe consider keeping them to yourself a bit more. And you should know, also, that as offensive and wrong as you may find the lyrics to a lot of music, so others find Christians telling them unsolicited what is right and what is wrong because of religion to be just as offensive and wrong.
As for the rest, you unfortunately chose to ignore everything that I actually said about lyrics themselves. Because you decided to respond not to the thoughts I put forward about lyrics, but to put forth your judgements about my view of the article that you posted. Which is you completely missing the point of your own thread.
Finally. This song by Mary Chapin Carpenter. We'll start with this quote from your article...because you made this thread about both lyrics and the article:
"This mainstream world of bitterness, anger, depression, indulgence in fleeting pleasures, and pale attempts at assembling something resembling meaning from the pit of confusion, this is just not a place I care to spend much time. I am not enriched by hearing about how much this singer hopes her ex suffers for breaking her heart. Yes, heartbreak happens. It's real. It's okay to sing about it, but at some point, there needs to be a search for true healing. With the mainstream, they rarely seem to arrive at such a healing. "
First of all...his view of my world is pretty insulting and ill-informed. I grabbed this song (very easily found) as an example of his apparent lack of knowledge about what lyrics in non Christian music bring in a very large number of cases. This song is about a love that has soured. Is she angry? Yes ("Baby, it's just been thorns"). Is she bitter? Yes ("I should have known that luck was a waste of time"). Is she depressed? Yes ("Now there's a hole here in my pocket where all my dreams have gone") Indulgence in fleeting pleasures? Well, if you think that's what love is, then check. "Pale attempts at assembling something resembling meaning from the pit of confusion"? "But at some point, there needs to be a search for true healing. With the mainstream, they rarely seem to arrive at such a healing."?
This song covers all of the things he perceives as negatives (which are natural and real human feelings that we NEED to deal with). It also has the resolve he doesn't seem to be actually seeking...that he doesn't seem to be taking the time to look for. In this song, she sees her relationship has run its course, and she's sad about it. Does she wallow in it? She does not. She not only learns from the experience in ways that will help her to make better decisions in the future, she is also able to show forgiveness and a desire for a better future for the other person in this failed relationship. And she does so in a way that is respectful, not only towards her former lover, but also to the listener. This is not an isolated type of song...there are literally millions of songs like this that bring hope and resolve to a bad experience.
As for me, the lyrics of this song helped me to be able to move on from a very painful breakup, and also helped me later in life when I found myself again feeling pain over losing someone that I loved very much, but who was not right for me. I'm sorry if you find fault in that.
Link [/quote] _________________ I'm leaning on the threshold
Of her mystery
And crashing through the walls
Of dying history
Well, I obviously disagree with you. He said himself that he listens to some secular music. As for being judgmental, I believe we should make very wise judgments about what kind of music (as well as books, TV shows and movies) we put into are mind. If we don't make judgments about what we put into our minds we will fill our minds with anything. And I don't believe he's anymore judgmental than anyone else. When you call someone "judgmental" you have just made a judgment about that person. I know the music he's criticizing is the vulgar and vile stuff that make up much of today's music, and I have no problem with him or anyone else criticizing this kind of stuff that I find repulsive myself. I don't find any artistic value in vileness and vulgarity and I find these kind of recordings to be a complete turnoff. I am not open to vile, vulgar lyrics and never will be regardless of whether people think it's closed-minded or not. I don't want vileness and vulgarity going into my mind. I didn't realize that by posting a link to this article that someone here would make judgments about the writer and at the same time say that the writer's the judgmental one. I just wanted to know about how important lyrics are to others here and thought the article was (for the most part), a good example of the way I look at lyrics. If that makes you think I'm judgmental, then you are making a judgment about me.
First: he says he listens to SOME secular music He also says he listens to very little of it. And he clearly listens with a closed mind. Yes, we have to make wise judgements about our own lives. Yes, he's VERY judgmental. If me pointing out that a judgmental person is being judgmental makes me judgmental, so be it. You're not being fair for calling me out for doing exactly what the writer did. He does not state anywhere in the article the specific music he is referring to...that's an assumption you are making so that you can easily agree with him. You don't have to like music that you find offensive. At all. It does close the door to a whole lot of music that is really great that you will never be open to listening to, which I think is a little sad, but your choice. As for the article...you posted it, I commented on it. I'm commenting on what the author actually said, and how I feel about it. He's judging non Christian music to the hilt, as are you, but I'm the one who's wrong for calling you both out for doing so? You came right out and told me in the quote above that you judge the music that myself and I would guess most of the people here enjoy listening to as vile and vulgar. So if you want to point that judgmental finger at anyone, best include yourself as well. Maybe if you don't want your what seems to be very strict Christian values to be questioned (which you brought here, not me), you should maybe consider keeping them to yourself a bit more. And you should know, also, that as offensive and wrong as you may find the lyrics to a lot of music, so others find Christians telling them unsolicited what is right and what is wrong because of religion to be just as offensive and wrong.
As for the rest, you unfortunately chose to ignore everything that I actually said about lyrics themselves. Because you decided to respond not to the thoughts I put forward about lyrics, but to put forth your judgements about my view of the article that you posted. Which is you completely missing the point of your own thread.
Finally. This song by Mary Chapin Carpenter. We'll start with this quote from your article...because you made this thread about both lyrics and the article:
"This mainstream world of bitterness, anger, depression, indulgence in fleeting pleasures, and pale attempts at assembling something resembling meaning from the pit of confusion, this is just not a place I care to spend much time. I am not enriched by hearing about how much this singer hopes her ex suffers for breaking her heart. Yes, heartbreak happens. It's real. It's okay to sing about it, but at some point, there needs to be a search for true healing. With the mainstream, they rarely seem to arrive at such a healing. "
First of all...his view of my world is pretty insulting and ill-informed. I grabbed this song (very easily found) as an example of his apparent lack of knowledge about what lyrics in non Christian music bring in a very large number of cases. This song is about a love that has soured. Is she angry? Yes ("Baby, it's just been thorns"). Is she bitter? Yes ("I should have known that luck was a waste of time"). Is she depressed? Yes ("Now there's a hole here in my pocket where all my dreams have gone") Indulgence in fleeting pleasures? Well, if you think that's what love is, then check. "Pale attempts at assembling something resembling meaning from the pit of confusion"? "But at some point, there needs to be a search for true healing. With the mainstream, they rarely seem to arrive at such a healing."?
This song covers all of the things he perceives as negatives (which are natural and real human feelings that we NEED to deal with). It also has the resolve he doesn't seem to be actually seeking...that he doesn't seem to be taking the time to look for. In this song, she sees her relationship has run its course, and she's sad about it. Does she wallow in it? She does not. She not only learns from the experience in ways that will help her to make better decisions in the future, she is also able to show forgiveness and a desire for a better future for the other person in this failed relationship. And she does so in a way that is respectful, not only towards her former lover, but also to the listener. This is not an isolated type of song...there are literally millions of songs like this that bring hope and resolve to a bad experience.
As for me, the lyrics of this song helped me to be able to move on from a very painful breakup, and also helped me later in life when I found myself again feeling pain over losing someone that I loved very much, but who was not right for me. I'm sorry if you find fault in that.
No, I don't have any problem with the song you posted. He did say that the secular music he's talking about is the kind that glorifies heavy drinking and careless sex and heavy profanity. The song you posted is not the kind of stuff he is talking about or the kind that I am talking about. And there's one song about heavy drinking that I actually love and actually had on repeat for a while after I first heard it. Notice that he said songs that "glorify" heavy drinking. I usually hate songs about heavy drinking too. But the difference is, this one does NOT glorify heavy drinking and I actually think it has a good message and there's a lot of truth in it. "Ain't no miracle at the bottom of the bottle I'm drinking".
As for being judgmental, it's just a fact that someone has to make a judgment about a person to come to the conclusion that that person is judgmental. Also, I don't think music with obscenities and profanities or other vile, vulgar content is great music, so I don't believe I'm missing out on great music by not exposing myself to that kind of stuff.
I don't find any artistic value at all in obscenities, profanities or vulgarities.
No, I don't have any problem with the song you posted. He did say that the secular music he's talking about is the kind that glorifies heavy drinking and careless sex and heavy profanity. The song you posted is not the kind of stuff he is talking about or the kind that I am talking about. And there's one song about heavy drinking that I actually love and actually had on repeat for a while after I first heard it. Notice that he said songs that "glorify" heavy drinking. I usually hate songs about heavy drinking too. But the difference is, this one does NOT glorify heavy drinking and I actually think it has a good message and there's a lot of truth in it. "Ain't no miracle at the bottom of the bottle I'm drinking".
Spirits and Demons - Michael Ray & Meghan Patrick
As for being judgmental, it's just a fact that someone has to make a judgment about a person to come to the conclusion that that person is judgmental. Also, I don't think music with obscenities and profanities or other vile, vulgar content is great music, so I don't believe I'm missing out on great music by not exposing myself to that kind of stuff.
I don't find any artistic value at all in obscenities, profanities or vulgarities.
That's not the music he's talking about, at all. He mentioned "the kind that glorifies heavy drinking and careless sex and heavy profanity" in his judgment of Nickelback. This is what he actually says he views secular music as being:
"It's a trail of failed relationships, unhealthy addictions, bitter confusion, and harmful vice."
"Listening to mainstream music has become an exercise in overdosing on many of the ugliest corners of society."
"The mainstream comes with its own set of dogmas and "rules" that will get you ostracized the moment you even appear to dissent."
"All of the worst impulses of any segment of Christian culture are only amplified in the mainstream."
"But the closest the mainstream ever gets to solving these problems (brokenness and pain) seems to be just indulging in more of the same vices that created the pain to begin with--drowning out suffering with dopamine."
"This mainstream world of bitterness, anger, depression, indulgence in fleeting pleasures, and pale attempts at assembling something resembling meaning from the pit of confusion, this is just not a place I care to spend much time."
"I am not enriched by hearing about how much this singer hopes her ex suffers for breaking her heart. Yes, heartbreak happens. It's real. It's okay to sing about it, but at some point, there needs to be a search for true healing. With the mainstream, they rarely seem to arrive at such a healing. It's so clear they're trying to fill a void with things that never will."
He then goes on with his Christianity sales pitch.
You believe what you want to believe. If being a Christian brings you peace, and what you think is a better life, then good for you. And if you want to talk about the importance of lyrics in music enough to start a thread about it, cool. But if you want to do so by including a sermon that insults the listening choices of almost everyone here (and he has, I believe, covered trashing just about every kind of non-Christian music with lyrics you can find), I'm going to let you know just how wrong I believe it is.
One of the best things about BEA is that it has always been a place where being open to music you are unfamiliar with or maybe didn't even like is encouraged. You can enjoy any kind of music you want to here without being shamed for it, or told that you're wrong for what you like or dislike. For example, I don't see anyone complaining about the sudden flood of Christian music on these boards, even though I am sure there are people who don't necessarily like it. And, in large part because of that, my musical world has grown so much over the last decade plus.
That's why when I see something like that article here, it doesn't sit right with me. Nobody pushes their beliefs on anyone else here...unless you want to go to the politics and religion section, which you will notice doesn't get a lot of traffic. This article takes direct shots at what a lot more people than you enjoy musically, and he's judging the crap out of us. And then he's selling that the only way to enjoy music correctly is to be a Christian and listen to Christian music. And I don't think this is the place for that.
You can be as Christian as you want to be. And you can choose to have your mind open to almost none of the music that exists in our world. (You may notice that pretty much the only person on these boards that routinely says "I don't like that kind of content in my music" is you.) I don't care. But please don't push that onto me with articles like that one. You choose to be offended by song lyrics? I'm offended at people trying to sell me their religion, especially doing so by telling me that my taste in music is wrong. I am ESPECIALLY not happy to see it at the one place where it's okay and encouraged to be completely open minded in my musical online life. I do not care if you don't like what I listen to. But don't put me down for it, and don't tell me I'm wrong. Either directly, or through a sermon disguised as an article about song lyrics. _________________ I'm leaning on the threshold
Of her mystery
And crashing through the walls
Of dying history
@Romanelli Well, I would say this place isn't so open to different opinions if I, as a member here, can't discuss what I don't like about lyrical content. Is this just a place where we're supposed to discuss the music we love and not have any discussion about the music we don't like and why we don't like it? I would think that people here should be able to handle discussing the reasons that members here don't like certain music as well as the reasons we do like certain music. We aren't children here. There's really nothing to discuss, if we only have discussions with those that we agree with. People here are free to tell me what they don't like about my Christian songs if they want to. And I'm not talking about all secular music. I actually listen to a good bit of secular music, I'm just selective about what secular music I listen to. Like I said, I'm not talking about the kind of songs like the one you posted and I posted an example of a secular song that I love. Others here are free to tell me what they look for in lyrical content and what they don't like in lyrical content. But if I can't mention my opinion here just because others disagree with me, then this really isn't a place that's open to different opinions. I'll give you another example of a secular song that I love right now. I absolutely love the song "How 'Bout Us" by Champaign. I think it's an absolutely beautiful, timeless love song that isn't sleazy at all. And unfortunately, I don't hear beautiful songs like this in today's music. I wonder sometimes where all the beautiful songs have gone. This song never gets old to me even after 43 years. It's the only song on their album that I like, but it's a fantastic one in my opinion. If anyone here doesn't like it, they are free to tell me what it is they don't like about it. I'm not going to be offended because people here disagree with me. I like to hear what it is people don't like about particular songs, rather than for them to just say they don't like a song and not give a reason.
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