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hairymarx1
Gender: Male
Location: London
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- #51
- Posted: 06/06/2013 18:08
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| meccalecca wrote: | I'm not sure the point you're trying to make with this statement.
I asked "So, do you think art needs to be challenging in order to be successful?" So maybe I wasn't being clear enough. I didn't mean commercially, the type of success I was referring to was in regards to quality of the product.
I agree that in general commercially successful art tends to be less challenging, but I don't think this is a clear reflection of the quality of the work. |
So to be clear, what you are asking me is whether I think 'quality' is concomitant to 'challenging'? I say, yes - albeit that both terms are a subjective evaluation.
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meccalecca
Voice of Reason
Gender: Male
Location: The Land of Enchantment
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- #52
- Posted: 06/06/2013 18:54
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| hairymarx1 wrote: | | So to be clear, what you are asking me is whether I think 'quality' is concomitant to 'challenging'? I say, yes - albeit that both terms are a subjective evaluation. |
I can respect that. It appears that your appreciation of music is more in line with the idea of "music as art" rather than than music for pleasure. Not that you do not receive pleasure from music, but that the pleasure seems to be derived from the concept of the music.
Not to be a relentless pest, but rather for the sake of constructive discussion. Do you find that there are particular tones, beats, melodies or lyrics that resonate with you regardless of their lack of innovation/originality? For example, early Scott Walker was really nothing more than a crooner usually covering Jacques Brel, but I find his voice to be magnificent. Similar things could be said about Otis Redding.
Similarly Red House Painters are not complex or entirely original, yet Mark Kozelek's lyrics have always resonated with me profoundly.
So is Faust simply better than Dylan based on the subjective opinion that they were more innovative?
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kramerfan86
Gender: Male
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- #53
- Posted: 06/06/2013 20:18
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| hairymarx1 wrote: | | Ok, that's your opinion and I respect it. For me, innovation and influence is a major factor in my appreciation of music. |
I can definitely get that, in day to day life knowing someone is a jerk or fake or not exceptionally clever can definitely alter one's view of them so I can see the logic of approaching music the same. For whatever reason when it comes to music I've always been able to ignore most of that. Don't know if at the end it's good, bad, or merely equal but different, but it certainly allows me to like music I wouldnt be able to stand otherwise.
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hairymarx1
Gender: Male
Location: London
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- #54
- Posted: 06/06/2013 23:17
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| meccalecca wrote: | It appears that your appreciation of music is more in line with the idea of "music as art" rather than than music for pleasure. Not that you do not receive pleasure from music, but that the pleasure seems to be derived from the concept of the music.
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That's it, absolutely.
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hairymarx1
Gender: Male
Location: London
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- #55
- Posted: 06/06/2013 23:39
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| meccalecca wrote: |
Not to be a relentless pest, but rather for the sake of constructive discussion. Do you find that there are particular tones, beats, melodies or lyrics that resonate with you regardless of their lack of innovation/originality? For example, early Scott Walker was really nothing more than a crooner usually covering Jacques Brel, but I find his voice to be magnificent. Similar things could be said about Otis Redding.
Similarly Red House Painters are not complex or entirely original, yet Mark Kozelek's lyrics have always resonated with me profoundly.
So is Faust simply better than Dylan based on the subjective opinion that they were more innovative? |
I agree with you about Scott Walker and Otis Redding...they're great examples. I would also say Neil Young is an artist whose lyrics are deceptively clever and often profoundly moving, especially on the album Tonight's The Night. I also think he is underrated as a guitar player. 'Lazer Guided Melodies' by Spiritualized is an album that is a kind of potpourri of influences that I nevertheless find is an incredibly moving one. I also find the work of Townes Van Zandt to be extremely engaging and rewarding, especially the album, My Mother The Mountain. It really is a beautiful piece of work. I admire Mark Kozelek's work too. I saw him at a festival a few years ago in London. His delicate songs and emotionally charged intense delivery was sadly being drowned out by blaring house music from a nearby stage. From that moment on, I said to myself that would be the last festival I will ever attend. The first band scheduled were Faust and it was the greatest gig I've ever seen.
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Romanelli
Bone Swah
Gender: Male
Location: Broomfield, Colorado
Moderator
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- #56
- Posted: 06/06/2013 23:47
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| hairymarx1 wrote: | | In my view, it's superficially executed in a way that has an undoubted appeal to a teenager of the early 1970s. I used to love this album as a teenager. That's the point, really. It's a lightweight pop record absent of the kind of intellectual gravitas it purports to aspire to. Bowie is the archetypal showman and when stripped of the gloss little of any artistic value remains underneath. |
What "intellectual gravitas" does it purport to aspire to?
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May we all get to heaven
'Fore the devil knows we're dead...
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hairymarx1
Gender: Male
Location: London
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- #57
- Posted: 06/06/2013 23:52
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| Romanelli wrote: | | What "intellectual gravitas" does it purport to aspire to? |
Pop art aesthetics, particularly Warhol.
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