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satiemaniac
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- #201
- Posted: 03/12/2014 22:14
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| Norman Bates wrote: | | Okay, but what if the original material isn't like this at all? After all, it is an adaptation. |
I was unaware of this, but it is a consistent trope for Scorsese, so I'm not sure how important a consideration that is, though I take it into account.
| Quote: | | I'm going to go ahead and side with Keith on this - I feel that layering the female characters any further in this film would detract from how much they seem oppressed and subjected in this film. We see them the way Jake sees them, it expounds on his objectifying nature. |
I guess I'll agree to disagree - I watch plenty of films dealing with abuse of women in various ways made by male and female directors, and Raging Bull produced one of the most immediate "gross out" factors to my ethical sensibilities of any of them. It's a gut reaction, sure, but I feel an intangible darkness that permeates the film and is resolved in a sickening way - the expectation of audience sympathy for the monster that's been made. Maybe it's just that I feel the main character's character arc isn't done very well if Scorsese anticipates sympathy and I am scapegoating the portrayal of women since it bugged me in Taxi Driver too. I dunno. I will lay this to rest, but I would like to thank Keith again for such an awesome response and everyone for discussing this with me. My stance isn't changed much, but I feel I learned a bit. 
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SquishypuffDave
Gender: Male
Age: 33
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- #202
- Posted: 03/12/2014 23:27
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| Kool Keith Sweat wrote: | | If you're making a commentary on Scorsese recycling tropes among his films, I'd agree that he might, but I'd disagree that the merit of an individual film is determined by the other works of a director. |
I think in terms of gender representation it's usually more appropriate to look at a broader body of work rather than an individual film. Looking at his body of work, yeah, I think you can reasonably conclude this guy has a problem with women, even if you could justify things on a case by case basis. Look me in the eye and tell me you don't think he was masturbating constantly while filming Wolf Of Wall Street.
| Kool Keith Sweat wrote: | | When Jake comes back in his fights, the sound used is literally screaming monkeys, roaring lions, trumpeting elephants, falling horses, and other animals. It's simply a pervasive, subtle-enough motif to further dehumanize Jake beyond his violent actions. |
lol. subtle.
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Jackwc
Queen Of The Forums
Location: Aaaanywhere Sex: Incredible
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- #203
- Posted: 03/12/2014 23:43
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| SquishypuffDave wrote: | | I think in terms of gender representation it's usually more appropriate to look at a broader body of work rather than an individual film. Looking at his body of work, yeah, I think you can reasonably conclude this guy has a problem with women, even if you could justify things on a case by case basis. Look me in the eye and tell me you don't think he was masturbating constantly while filming Wolf Of Wall Street. |
I do second this, however - the only fleshed out female character I think Scorsese has ever written was Karen Hill, and that's only because we were given her entire internal monologue.
Notice how often Scorsese movies involve leaving or cheating on your "nagging wife" to find a more attractive, young, or more submissive replacement - and often this decision is the only one Scorsese chooses not to punish when he doles out "Catholic Justice" upon his characters.
And keep in mind this is a man who has been married five times.
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Kool Keith Sweat
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- #204
- Posted: 03/13/2014 01:30
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| Jackwc wrote: | | the only fleshed out female character I think Scorsese has ever written was Karen Hill |
*points to Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore*
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